GreyWolf74 - 20 November 2009 11:25 AM

he's (Schumacher) won at every track he's raced on at least once

Pedantic, splitting hairs, and avoiding the point of your post (with which I agree) but just to correct a fallacy.... he didnt win at quite all the tracks. He never won in Turkey, South Africa, or Mexico. He also didnt win at Donnington (although he did win European GP's elsewhere). He also never won the Luxembourg GP (although he did win other GPs at the Luxembourg venue , aka Nurburgring when the Lux.GP became the European GP)

I was going to say China as well but I just remembered he got lucky there the last year he raced, with his special Bridgestones handling the damp better than the rest of the field on Michelins. Renault made the wrong tyre call..Alonso got caught on the wrong rubber and lost 40 secs in 10 laps, allowing MS to catch & pass despite FA having been a mile up the road at one stage. Anyway fact is MS did win a Chinese GP, lucky or not.

Brawnista - 19 November 2009 12:08 AM

Has this ever happened before ? A WDC/WCC winning team ending up with neither of its drivers in the following yr ?

Williams 1992/93 When Patrese and Mansell were replaced/ succeeded by Prost and Hill.

And read page 2 before reacting as a reminder to myself.

This is just plain weird. For one, isn't MS still under an extender contract with Ferrari, and then re-re signed one when he was pegged as Felipe's replacement mid-season? Also, the hell happened to that famous "Ferrari Loyalty" ... such as wanting to drive and standing in the garages the rest of the year. Jeez. ...And duh, we've been assuming since the instant Luca started begging for a 3rd (or more) car was because they had 3.5 different WDCs out of 4 drivers with a contract.

Really have to think this is only coming up after Kimi announced his disappearance "mostly officially" just after McLaren's announcement... picture Ross throwing a chair out the window and running around screaming... then picture if poor Nico was in a meeting with him at the time. Mercedes are now absolutely desperate to get an A+ driver in their other car with the first occupied by a giant "?". No disrespect to Mr Rosberg as I'd say he has a fair shot at moving up in the world next year, but with the field absolutely stacked, it's going to be hard.

Might be interesting to note though... on Kimi's official website and forums, moderators are locking any and all threads that have "2010" in text or mentioned anywhere. This might be a technicality because of the Ferrari contract until officially 'adjusted' Dec 31st 2009, but it still strikes me as curious. There could still be dirty work afoot. There are also zero threads related to WRC or rallying in general (deleted?). Kimi... might be chatting it up with MS and formulating an anti-Ferrari propaganda team that uses that video of Luca driving the California into the freaking sand trap as their PR pitch.

One of the BBC articles this week proudly marked Lewis, Jenson and Kimi as the head honchos of drivers presently (no disagreement) from me), so no matter how awesome the competition will be next year it'll still feel a little empty.

Not happening.

Schumacher is well on his way to being a permanent power player at the FIA.

This is all constructed media rumor hogwash designed to put some pressure under some drivers that are holding out for more money and better terms.

Mercedes can forget Kimi was well.

My guess is they would need to pony up ten million just to get Kimi up to square then another six million to get him to race then another six million to be paid if he won the WDC.

Yea,that's 22 million dollars.

But Kimi's worth it.

Heck,he's worth 25 million just sitting on his ........

worknman24-7 - 20 November 2009 08:30 PM

This is all constructed media rumor hogwash designed to put some pressure om a driver that is holding out for more money and better terms.

But Kimi's worth it.

Heck,he's worth 25 million just sitting on his ........

Fixed that for you. Who else is left, otherwise? Hekki? Nick? Kamui? Not exactly anchors for what thy want to be a continuing top-tier team from day 1. It's only because of the complete and total lack of highly-useful possibilities that anyone thought of this in the first place, I'll 100% agree with you. MS would be entirely shocking and a massive risk, yes... it'd just be a pathetic stop-gap measure on the assumption they could grab Vettel.

After this long and an un-retire tease this year already, I'd just rather see more recently proven talent or a hard push on someone new instead of someone clawing out of retirement as a complex publicity stunt for the sake of "patriotism".

Not only is Kimi arguably worth it anyway, but he's now an extremely precious resource for a team at risk of embarrassing themselves in their first year of truly-defined future persona. Desperation tends to lead to generosity when you're literally out of options for an A+++ driver who can drive an absolutely dog of a car to podiums (re: Lewis and Kimi) that might salvage an otherwise awful year like the both of them did in 2009. This could be seen as elitism or spite, but a poor performance by a "new" official Mercedes team their inaugural season could give them more shame than we might get pride from anything-but-last for USF1's first season. Even if MS shockingly does do this, Ross had better be pounding his head on the table for seemingly allowing both his very high-rate drivers go... Rubens in particular it seems he made no effort on. That Jenson left to race against a better teammate? Ouch @ Nico R. It might also kill that ego he's trying to build up if he's driving #2 behind MS... then again it'd be hard to build up an ego behind Kimi, either. Hum.

madsomnambulist - 20 November 2009 11:02 PM

worknman24-7 - 20 November 2009 08:30 PM

This is all constructed media rumor hogwash designed to put some pressure om a driver that is holding out for more money and better terms.

But Kimi's worth it.

Heck,he's worth 25 million just sitting on his ........

... then again it'd be hard to build up an ego behind Kimi

^I'm not sure about that. Felipe did it.

Azrifel - 20 November 2009 07:34 PM

Brawnista - 19 November 2009 12:08 AM

Has this ever happened before ? A WDC/WCC winning team ending up with neither of its drivers in the following yr ?

Williams 1992/93 When Patrese and Mansell were replaced/ succeeded by Prost and Hill.

And read page 2 before reacting as a reminder to myself.

Much thanks.

LOL. Leave it for Frank Williams to set the precedent.

I remember reading a few years back - well, maybe more than just a few - that Patrick Head and Sir Frank considered drivers as merely interchangeable components to the car and that some of them gained bigger heads than their bodies could support after winning a WDC.

Heinz Harald Frentzen who was a driver with credible talent (e.g. his 3rd place in the 1999 WDC with an underdog Jordan) didn't take too kindly to that sort of management style and that approach hampered his end result performance.


Perhaps Sir Frank and Patrick have softened their stance to that over the years - as indicated by a willingness to take on Button and Rosberg (and perhaps even Nakajima, although that came with a manufacturer engine deal) through some "nurturing" driver development years ?

raceman71 - 19 November 2009 02:57 AM

I bet you Brawn wishes he kept Rubens around right now and Rubens is probably kicking himself as well.

Yeah. I was thinking the same thing.

Sigh. Rubens. Rubens. Rubens.

He quits Ferrari and Schumi retires the next yr.

He quits Brawn and Mercedes buys the team and Button leaves for the next yr.

His timing is impecable isn't it ?

Personally, I would've liked to have seen Rubens get redemption in the form of challenging for a WDC with a team behind him as the clear cut #1 but there's only one fairy tale to go around for the ages at one time I guess. Perhaps Brawn GP in 2009 was his career chance ? Boy, if they knew then what they know now about Button, huh ?



But this story of an all German Schumi/Rosberg Mercedes Silver Arrows team is something isn't it ? I'm sure Rubens must think so.

To me it wont happen, and the benefit to Mercedes is dubious.

[Hypothetical Hat on mode] Should Michael sign (forget the red tape and contractual conflicts etc) and he then goes out and wins races and the WDC the benefits would be minimal for Mercedes as Michael would get the credit. If Rosberg or a lesser driver was to win it would be seen as Mercedes made Rosberg a winner, and better publicity for Mercedes, who will be far less into Michaels goodwill from anysuch deal than their own.

However if Michael was to sign up and go out and not be the force many thinks he would then publicity would be more along the line of Mercedes let Schumacher down with a dud car. ie THEY would bear the brunt of the blame not Michael. Its almost a lose lose situation with Schumacher on board.[/Hypothetical Hat mode]

For veteran F1 fans , like you and I, it's common knowledge that a) it's difficult to win a WDC/WCC in F1 and for teams like Renault, Ferrari, and McLaren to repeat and make it look common place speaks more about their infrastructure and approach to success and b) it takes more than just a good driver to win a WDC.

The notion that Schumi would somehow steal Mercedes Benz's thunder may fly for a novice blissfully infatuated driver-centric F1 fan but surely not us folks here on this forum ?


For teams like Mercedes Benz and Ferrari who've been in GP Racing since its inception, the legend is built beyond the driver. Great drivers have been associated with their marque but their accomplishments were always placed with the context of the marque's name attached. It's been about the consistency and legacy in history of being leaders and frontrunners for winning.

How many times have you read CD and Dzu (aka Red) on here say that the drivers who contributed WDC's have been honored and thanked for their contribution always but in the end, drivers come and go but the legacy of the team remains the paramount importance ?

When Kimi left, Luca made a point of saying that he thanked Kimi for his contribution and will always remember that.

So goes for Schumi - all be it with a little more thanking involved and welcomeness on return visits, I'm sure.


For Mercedes Benz, like for you and I as veteran F1 fans, their concern is about getting that WDC/WCC rather than the driver stealing their PR thunder. The brand image of winning is what they're after. The Silver Arrows of a bygone era was associated with advanced winning technology beyond its era's standards. Some of their technological developments are still looked at in awe even in today's advanced technology standards. The problem was the overlap with the taint of the association with the Nazi regime of the time and perhaps Mercedes wishes to overwrite that Silver Arrows brand image (along with the LeMans grandstand deaths) with a new more positive global-centric modern one ?

Perhaps the one thing that may work against signing Schumi in a very MINOR way is brand image. For me at least, like Cadillac a couple of years ago, Mercedes has always been associated with the rich elderly set and the corporate bureacratic set (both legitimate and illegitimate). The brand is NOT associated with vibrant young successful entrepreneurs set. BMW is leading in the luxury market for a reason. They'll likely want to avoid the "what's the difference between a porcupine and a BMW driver ? - yuppie" branding but need work to redefine their brand and make it more palatable for younger generations. Perhaps Rosberg could spearhead that branding makeover, much like Valentino Rossi in the sport bike set ?

Double post