OT but I am kind of surprised that Button beat Hammy on the list, seems teams think very highly of Button. I wonder if Ferrari DIDN'T vote Alonso/Massa 1/2 lol

Rick, you make very points. Undoubtedly Hamilton and Vettel are prodigies. Still, I expected that Heikki would have "blossomed" at McLaren

I was disppointed too. I'm not blaming the team in any way, just saying Kova may take longer to come around. I often think when people point out that Hammy has benefitted from a good car at McLaren, that many drivers would suffer under the pressure of expectation in his position so soon. Kova seems to be proof of that. Even Jenson commented on that pressure this year, and he is a veteran. Had Heikki another year or two under his belt before arriving at McLaren his performance might have been different.

oracle - 19 November 2009 11:28 AM

jes_ - 19 November 2009 08:47 AM

Seems to me not so very long ago the talk was how Jenson Button was 'over rated', I mean it took him 7 years to win his first & only race in 9 years of Formula 1 , until getting the remarkable 'break' with Brawn this season. During that time he raced with Williams, Renault, BAR.. hardly back end charlies.

I actually think quite highly of Heikki. His ability & potential got him on the RDDP for a number of years, which saw him advance to the Renault drive. Steep rookie season no doubt, as it is with a majority of rookies to be fair, although he did finish all but 1 race in his first season to secure 7th in the DC ahead of his veteran team mate. Hardly shoddy. Renault finished 3rd in the WCC.

Personally I was never happy with his move to Woking, & was disappointed with his results. Saying that, any one who goes there as 'team mate' to Hamilton would always be the #2, just like Shumacher at Ferrari, or Alonso at Renault. Heikki, like Piquet jr & Barrichello for ex, are all competent, capable drivers, but stick them alongside the 'golden children' of their respective teams & something happens. Confidence seems to be dented, results seems to flail. Now of course the golden kids will shine through, the likes of Hamilton, Schumacher & Alonso are/were in a class of their own, judging their team mates against them is bound to diminish the perception of the other guys abilities.

Rubens has livened up since emerging from the shadow of MS, I don't doubt Heikki would get his mo-jo back in another team where he is an equal standing driver, or even the experienced #1 to a rookie, likewise in some ways Piquet jr, had things been different surrounding his torrid time at Enstone, I don't doubt he would have 'grown' in a different environment.

Anyhooo, here's hoping HK can find a drive for next season, he really shouldn't be written off, imho he still has a lot to give.

The problem with that rationale is that, while Hamilton, Schumacher and Alonso may have been the golden child at their respective teams, they were/are also very good drivers.

Hamilton, for example, easily could have been overshawdowed by Alonso. He easily could have underperformed, no matter how much of a golden child he was. The fact is he didn't. He was given an opportunity and he made the most of it. He didn't simply take a back seat to Alonso and leave it at that.

Heikki has rarely shown that ability to challenge for leadership on any team. I find it hard to ever conceive of him as a number 1 on any team. He simply doesn't seem to have the confidence and the ability that makes a driver number 1.

I think Oracle makes some good points.

I don't rate him against Hamilton who is one of the elite drivers, I judge Heikki on his own. For whatever reason Heikki doesn't seem to cash in on his opportunities. 4 times he qualified in the top 6 this year and didn't really do anything with it. Remember he had KERS and should have gained an advantage on the starts.

Germany Started 6 - Finished 8
Hungary Started 6 - Finished 5
European Started 2 - Finished 4
Italy Started 4 - Finished 6

Stats can be dangerous because of the butterfly effect but in races where much was expected he seems to fade.

If he is in F1 or DTM it makes no matter to me. Seems like an OK guy, if he stays in the sport and does well then good for him.

Oracle, I think you misunderstood/read my post regarding the 'golden kids'. I mentioned they were the # 1's in the team but I did also clarify that they, Ham, Alonso & Schumacher were in a class of their own, so putting anyone next to them as a team mate could naturally 'over shadow' the ability of the 2nd driver. Ham & Alonso on the same team was a different kettle of fish.. both drivers are pretty much on a par, both exceptional drivers.

I don't see Heikki as in that rare group, but neither do I think he is a poor driver, he took 7th in the DC in his rookie season, a head of his veteran team mate, but the choice to move to McLaren instead of Toyota was, imo, perhaps a mistake. A season or so honing his kraft at Toyota may've been more beneficial to his future rise, than jumping head first into a team like McLaren, were in reality from there, the only move is 'down' for him. jmo, of course

rickoblue - 19 November 2009 03:39 PM

Rick, you make very points. Undoubtedly Hamilton and Vettel are prodigies. Still, I expected that Heikki would have "blossomed" at McLaren

I was disppointed too. I'm not blaming the team in any way, just saying Kova may take longer to come around. I often think when people point out that Hammy has benefitted from a good car at McLaren, that many drivers would suffer under the pressure of expectation in his position so soon. Kova seems to be proof of that. Even Jenson commented on that pressure this year, and he is a veteran. Had Heikki another year or two under his belt before arriving at McLaren his performance might have been different.

Again, you make a good point.

I have always maintained that Hamilton never got enough credit during his rookie season for not wilting under the spotlight and all the turmoil around the team.

Yes, arguably he cracked at the end when he had a sizable lead on the WDC. But I viewed that less about reaction to pressure and more about not having better race management skills and experience. His nature is to race, to always try to win, and in those last few races, he should have realized he didn't have to win to secure the WDC.

Otherwise, with Spygate and the acrimony with Alonso, other more experienced drivers might have lost focus and lost it. He didn't. But instead we kept hearing his success was all about the car.

As for Heikki, I really hope he gets a ride at a decent team and he's able to perform up to our expectations of him. He is a far better driver than his results indicate.

jes_ - 19 November 2009 04:55 PM

Oracle, I think you misunderstood/read my post regarding the 'golden kids'. I mentioned they were the # 1's in the team but I did also clarify that they, Ham, Alonso & Schumacher were in a class of their own, so putting anyone next to them as a team mate could naturally 'over shadow' the ability of the 2nd driver. Ham & Alonso on the same team was a different kettle of fish.. both drivers are pretty much on a par, both exceptional drivers.

I don't see Heikki as in that rare group, but neither do I think he is a poor driver, he took 7th in the DC in his rookie season, a head of his veteran team mate, but the move to McLaren instead of Toyota was, imo, too soon. A season or so honing his kraft at Toyota may've been more beneficial to his future rise, than jumping head first into a team like McLaren, were in reality from there, the only way is a team 'down' for him. jmo, of course

Perhaps I did misread your comments. In that case, I apologize for mischaracterizing your comments.

I agree with you except for the "too soon to McLaren" part. I think such opportunities are rare, and a driver simply has to take them when they come.

It's like they say. Luck is when opportunity meets preparation. Or as I recently hard Jon Bon Jovi state on the Today morning show, "the harder we work, the luckier we get."

When that opportunity comes, you have to step up your game. If you don't then you'll find yourself in Heikki's position, losing a good seat.

Watkins74 - 19 November 2009 04:01 PM

I think Oracle makes some good points.

I don't rate him against Hamilton who is one of the elite drivers, I judge Heikki on his own. For whatever reason Heikki doesn't seem to cash in on his opportunities. 4 times he qualified in the top 6 this year and didn't really do anything with it. Remember he had KERS and should have gained an advantage on the starts.

Germany Started 6 - Finished 8
Hungary Started 6 - Finished 5
European Started 2 - Finished 4
Italy Started 4 - Finished 6

Stats can be dangerous because of the butterfly effect but in races where much was expected he seems to fade.

If he is in F1 or DTM it makes no matter to me. Seems like an OK guy, if he stays in the sport and does well then good for him.

Funny enough, those were some of his better races too. Over the past 2 years he had some where he just wasn't there.

http://www.ts.fi/f1/uutiset/89742.html

Turun Sanomat says Heikki's chances to get to Renault have significantly increased.

Timo Glock signed to Manor.

And it says Heidfeld's contract should also clear up before Renault's board of directors meeting in December, when they make a decision whether to keep the F1 team or not.

So those two would be out of the way.

Renault has announced they are looking for an experienced driver. There would be only Adrian Sutil and Heikki Kovalainen left.

I was under the impression that Sutil would have already said he would have no trouble continuing at Force India for another year. I don't know whether he has actually made a deal with them or not, but would not be surprised if he has. With all the chaos going on, he might have signed it already to snap a safe seat for himself not hang around waiting if something better comes up.

Lucas di Grassi will do a test for Renault in December but he is believed to not have enough experience.

I read a rumour (and I stress the word rumour) that one of the options Renault are looking at is to offload a percentage of their F1 team (c 40%) in order to continue. It was suggested that they are currently in discussions with a Russian 'investor'. If there is any substance to this rumour look for Vitaly Petrov, the highly rated Russian 2009 GP2 runner up, to be a potential Renault driver. He is already mentioned in conjunction to several new teams on account of he comes with a large wad of sponsorship. Petrov is also particularly closely linked with Campos, whom he was driving for in GP2.

I'm surprised Glock didn't end up in talks with the new Mercedes team - maybe he did. I think Heikki could end up at Renault or Sauber, but Renault seems more likely because there is now some rumor about Kubica trying to get out of Renault because of the uncertainty of their future. This is the silliest of silly seasons.