Well, yes. Heikki won a GP already in his 2nd year in F1.

I think of Mika Häkkinen who didn't win anything for years at McLaren. He came to F1 in 1991, was at Lotus for 2 years, then at McLaren from 1993 to the second to last race of 1997 without winning anything. Mika was spectacular to watch, but results-wise, Heikki is ahead, I would say. OK, Mika finished 4th in 1994, whilst Heikki's best is 7th, but thinking of the GP win... I would say that's more important for a driver than finishing 4th versus 7th.

I hope Heikki himself compares his F1 career to that of Mika, and understands he has achieved quite a lot already. I think he does not have the respect Mika had already after his 2nd year in F1, but when it comes to winning, Heikki is ahead. And he is young - he has plenty of time to achieve great things in F1.

He just needs to move on to some other team now and keep working, and I am sure things will get better for him. The talent is there, the speed is there, just keep working and success will come to you.

jes_ - 19 November 2009 08:47 AM

Seems to me not so very long ago the talk was how Jenson Button was 'over rated', I mean it took him 7 years to win his first & only race in 9 years of Formula 1, until getting the remarkable 'break' with Brawn this season. During that time he raced with Williams, Renault, BAR.. hardly back end charlies.

But they were not race winning teams when he raced for them.

I think many people who critisise Button for only winning 1 race before this year often forget that he never had the best equipment out there.

Prior to this year at Brawn the best car he'd had in F1 was the 2004 BAR. That was a good car but the Ferrari was a long way better, Ferrari dominated that year, Schumacher winning 12 of the 1st 13 races & Ferrari winning 15 of the 18 races that year. The BAR was the 2nd best car for the 1st half of the year (Mclaren & Williams caught up over the 2nd half of 04) & JB used that to score 1 pole & 10 podiums & finish 3rd in the drivers championship.

The other cars he had at Williams, Benetton/Renault, BAR/Honda were never cars capable of challenging for wins on speed.

Its true his 6 wins & WDC win this year was aided by having the best car early on but the guy who wins the most races & WDC in a year always has the best or one of the very best cars that year.

anzie - 19 November 2009 09:01 AM

I think of Mika Häkkinen who didn't win anything for years at McLaren. He came to F1 in 1991, was at Lotus for 2 years, then at McLaren from 1993 to the second to last race of 1997 without winning anything.

And that 1st win was given to him.

DC was ordered to let him past 3 laps from the end & then team co-operation between Williams & McLaren saw Villeneuve let Mika & DC past in the final 2 turns of the last lap for a Mclaren 1st/2nd.


BTW I'm Not taking anything away from Mika's talent or anything as he earned many wins & 2 championships after that, just pointing out how that 1st win was given to him.

Yeah I know that about Mika's first win

To me it didn't matter - the wait was so long that I didn't really care how it came as long as it came. We knew he's an excellent F1 driver and honestly it took too long to get that first win with his talent. McLaren and their engines were not helping, sure, but still it took quite a bit more time than we had imagined.

Mind you, I almost saw him die. I grew up into F1 watching him grow up as a F1 driver. Seeing him take his first win was a huge relief. Newspapers with a front page photo of Mika's face covered in blood - blood coming out of his nose, ears, mouth... after seeing that photo and his eyes... he looked dead, to be honest. After seeing that it didn't matter how he got his first win.

jes_ - 19 November 2009 08:47 AM

Seems to me not so very long ago the talk was how Jenson Button was 'over rated'

When did he stop being overrated.

Heikki does have some skill but is he a #1 driver - heck no. I wouldn't even rank him as high as Button or Heidfeld. I say Heikki thus far is about the same level as Fisichella. I know people LOVE Fisi but in reality Fisichella just has average skill and needs a dominating car, performance, and mistakes by those around him to even finish on the podium. Heikki well be around for a while because he has his times of brilliance (just like Fisi) but if I were a team owner I wouldn't give him a seat.

I know I'm going to get burnt for saying these things but you're talking about a guy who ran for two top teams and sunk.

Hitokiri2 - 18 November 2009 02:06 PM

Would he want back at Renault though? Didn't they treat him like crap over there? I'm looking for Heikki to end up at one of the newer teams.

the didn't really treat him badly, they wanted the a big-name rookie instead of him; plus, it's not like Heikki left Renault for some scrub team...

jes_ - 19 November 2009 08:47 AM

Seems to me not so very long ago the talk was how Jenson Button was 'over rated', I mean it took him 7 years to win his first & only race in 9 years of Formula 1 , until getting the remarkable 'break' with Brawn this season. During that time he raced with Williams, Renault, BAR.. hardly back end charlies.

I actually think quite highly of Heikki. His ability & potential got him on the RDDP for a number of years, which saw him advance to the Renault drive. Steep rookie season no doubt, as it is with a majority of rookies to be fair, although he did finish all but 1 race in his first season to secure 7th in the DC ahead of his veteran team mate. Hardly shoddy. Renault finished 3rd in the WCC.

Personally I was never happy with his move to Woking, & was disappointed with his results. Saying that, any one who goes there as 'team mate' to Hamilton would always be the #2, just like Shumacher at Ferrari, or Alonso at Renault. Heikki, like Piquet jr & Barrichello for ex, are all competent, capable drivers, but stick them alongside the 'golden children' of their respective teams & something happens. Confidence seems to be dented, results seems to flail. Now of course the golden kids will shine through, the likes of Hamilton, Schumacher & Alonso are/were in a class of their own, judging their team mates against them is bound to diminish the perception of the other guys abilities.

Rubens has livened up since emerging from the shadow of MS, I don't doubt Heikki would get his mo-jo back in another team where he is an equal standing driver, or even the experienced #1 to a rookie, likewise in some ways Piquet jr, had things been different surrounding his torrid time at Enstone, I don't doubt he would have 'grown' in a different environment.

Anyhooo, here's hoping HK can find a drive for next season, he really shouldn't be written off, imho he still has a lot to give.

The problem with that rationale is that, while Hamilton, Schumacher and Alonso may have been the golden child at their respective teams, they were/are also very good drivers.

Hamilton, for example, easily could have been overshawdowed by Alonso. He easily could have underperformed, no matter how much of a golden child he was. The fact is he didn't. He was given an opportunity and he made the most of it. He didn't simply take a back seat to Alonso and leave it at that.

Heikki has rarely shown that ability to challenge for leadership on any team. I find it hard to ever conceive of him as a number 1 on any team. He simply doesn't seem to have the confidence and the ability that makes a driver number 1.

Ok so I didn't realize this was only his 4th year in F1, thought he'd beebn around longer. Only way he won't be in F1 next year is if he refuses all offers. Even if all the established teams are down on him, any new team would be stupid to not make him some kind of offer, so then he would have to refuse all offers to sit out this year

He simply doesn't seem to have the confidence and the ability that makes a driver number 1.

He doesn't ...... now, but who knows he may be a late bloomer. Or maybe it is that Hamilton and Vettel are extraordinary talents, and that the performances of Kovalainen, Rosberg, Kubica et al, are more to the norm. It may just take more time for them to develop into front line players. The problem is that it seems today the teams are more willing to try yet another "young gun" in the hopes of uncovering a Vettel, than they are willing to allow the Kova's of the world to mature.

rickoblue - 19 November 2009 12:32 PM

He simply doesn't seem to have the confidence and the ability that makes a driver number 1.

He doesn't ...... now, but who knows he may be a late bloomer. Or maybe it is that Hamilton and Vettel are extraordinary talents, and that the performances of Kovalainen, Rosberg, Kubica et al, are more to the norm. It may just take more time for them to develop into front line players. The problem is that it seems today the teams are more willing to try yet another "young gun" in the hopes of uncovering a Vettel, than they are willing to allow the Kova's of the world to mature.

Rick, you make very points. Undoubtedly Hamilton and Vettel are prodigies. Still, I expected that Heikki would have "blossomed" at McLaren. Granted, Hamilton got the better parts first, but that only lasted for a race. Usually by the next race Heikki was also up-to-date.

Still, I don't think Heikki was as hobbled as some here have always claimed. There was always a marked difference in Heikki's qualifying and his race performance. And if in fact he were so handicapped he wouldn't qualify as well as he did.

The truth is in the races, Heikki never looked like much of racer. He lacked tenacity. And that is something you bring with you. You don't get that simply by switching teams and being in a more accommodating environment.

Consider Autosport's list of top 10 drivers of 2009 as ranked by the various team principals. There is no reason why Heikki shouldn't be on that list, given his team. And yet he didn't even crack the top 10.

That says a whole lot. Sutil got a total of 8 points out of a possible 100. That basically means that Heikki wasn't even ranked in the top 10 by quite a few teams.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80222

1. Sebastian Vettel 76
2. Jenson Button 67
3. Lewis Hamilton 65
4. Fernando Alonso 39
5. Rubens Barrichello 35
6= Kimi Raikkonen 30
6= Mark Webber 30
8. Felipe Massa 19
9. Robert Kubica 10
10. Adrian Sutil 8

Very intersting list. Kinda dumb though that they list the top ten when the teams only rank 8 though. There were only 11 points left over so there couldn't have been more than 3 or 4 drivers left off.