speedfan - 19 November 2009 08:22 PM

Hobby Man Bill - 19 November 2009 08:05 PM

EXCUSE ME MAAM!!!

Brian France has given televised interviews in which he was obviously drunk (or high) so that even the press commented on it. He has been a poster boy for whats wrong with corp. America in general and NASCAR in particular. That you chose to defend him and his minions is up to you, but don't expect me to treat you with kid gloves while you're doing it. I have yet to see any objectivity on your part when it comes to BF,MH or NASCAR and they're rulings. I don't hate him, I simply point out what he's done to hurt a sport I enjoy and have for over 50 years. I do hate the attitude he has towards the people that allow NASCAR to perpetuate his rule. The owners,crews and drivers IMHO deserve better then him, hopefully that will happen sooner rather then later. AA JMHO

Bill

You are excused.

This is my eighth season watching NASCAR and I have yet to see an interview with BF where he appeared to be in any way intoxicated. You appear to see what you want to see.

You say that you have enjoyed this sport for 50 years. Without the France family there arguably would not have been a sport to enjoy.

You are correct, and while I didn't always agree with Bill Sr or Bill Jr, I always respected them and felt the things they did were ultimately in the best interest of BOTH the Sport and ALL the people that were involved, including the fans.

It's a shame you didn't see the interviews I mentioned, they are out there, probably on youtube, I'm not very good at finding that stuff, but I'm certain some here can. The worst of it is, he called the press conference himself. The impression from almost EVERYONE that saw and heard it was that he was SERIOUSLY impaired. He didn't answer questions put to him, but rambler incoherently until some of his staff called the conference ended and led him away. As someone said, third generation seems to be the one that screws it up. Brian, in my opinion, is the poster child that proves that adage. He's young, maybe he'll have an epiphany and realise the harm he's done and fix it, but I won't hold my breath. AA JMHO

Bill

Hobby Man Bill - 19 November 2009 03:28 PM

Cat-Man-Do - 19 November 2009 03:05 PM

Hobby Man Bill - 19 November 2009 01:42 PM

I'm not a lawyer, but I'm not so sure as you that all crimes get reported to the DA. AA JMHO

Bill

In connection with their official activities court personnel, lawyers and judges all have legal obligations in regards to criminal activity made known to them. It would take one heck of a conspiracy, including the agreement of battling lawyers, to quash evidence of that type presented in a courtroom. Do you even know why the court allowed the proceedings to be sealed? I doubt it, yet without such information you are apparently ready to brand the court and judge totally corrupt. It seems that the experts claim that sealing such proceedings almost never happens. I didn't see where they said it NEVER happens or that when it has happened in the past that corruption was involved. It would obviously take compelling circumstances for a judge to take such action. Do you know that those circumstances don't exist? This is high profile. Sooner or later details will leak out. Probably not the whole story, but certainly enough to let us know if we should grab our pitchforks and light the torches. Until then, baseless speculation serves no purpose, unless, of course, you are one of the types I mentioned in my previous post.

You seem to have some perverse need to put words in my mouth, I merely stated my OPINION that things divulged in a civil action don't ALWAYS get reported to the local DA. It's my opinion, and I stand by it because I have seen it myself. It wasn't an earthshaking event, but it was theft and the DA either lied to me or it wasn't reported.

As for your attack and rant, please read what I wrote, not what you made up. AA JMHO

Bill

My attack and rant? Things made up? I asked you some questions based on things you had said. Some attack. Without any actual knowledge, that I am aware of, of why the court has taken it's action you imply that corruption is likely based on something you say happened to you in another court. Maybe that other court just didn't see things the way you did. It's pretty much guaranteed that at least one party is going to leave a courtroom unhappy.
You criticize others for what you claim is an unwavering and endless defense of BF, yet you never seem to miss a chance to bash him and NASCAR, no matter how thin any evidence against them may be. So how does that make you any different from the defenders you criticize, other then to put you on the opposite end of the spectrum? You claim that BF was drunk or high in interviews. Based on what factual information? There was a newspaper article earlier this year about someone arrested for drunkeness and thrown in a cell where he died because he wasn't drunk. He had a medical condition that caused that appearance. Ever consider something like that? I imagine though that you will stick with your theory, since that is far more damning. You seem quite content to make up your mind based on little more then speculation and rumor, and then you show displeasure about what you consider unfair treatment in a courtroom. It sucks when the other side doesn't listen to all the evidence, doesn't it?

Talon64 - 19 November 2009 08:38 PM

speedfan - 19 November 2009 08:22 PM

Without the France family there arguably would not have been a sport to enjoy.

The first two generations of the family did a fantastic job in molding NASCAR into what it became before Brian France took over.

So far Brian appears to be proving the saying that the first generation creates, the second generation perfects and the third generation destroys, regardless of what happens in his private life.

I am quite sure that during the time of the first two generations there were just as many fans who thought they were killing NASCAR. It is only in retropect that their contributions can be viewed with objectivity and that they may be heralded for those contributions.

Lovey-Dovey - 19 November 2009 10:09 PM

speedfan - 19 November 2009 04:48 PM

Lovey-Dovey -

Yes, I was angry at the time, and was discussing the situation with the proper officials, when BF stepped in and in no uncertain terms that the situation should be brought up post race. I tried to explain that after the main event there would be no point in discussing a pre race situation, but he said that by doing so I was breaking a rule, one that did not exist in the track's rule book. At which point he became beligerant with me, and asked to see my license, then took it from me. I have never seen anyone pull such a power trip, ever, in racing or life in general.

You were arguing with him and he didn't want to argue with you. Again, you don't get it. He's the boss. He stepped in, right or wrong. You should have taken the result and moved on. Instead, you threw it up in his face that you thought he was wrong. Have you not heard of tact? Hello Jeremy Mayfield!

You should have kept your mouth shut, thanked him for his time, and left. Short term loss for a long term gain.

No, you do not get it. It was a discussion with the track steward, the person in charge of the track I was racing at. He was trying to contact the head scorer to see if there was a chance the time that they wrote on the pit board was correct. Before she had a chance to review and respond, Brian stepped in and told me that this had to be settled after the races were over. Put it in other terms, if a GOGH car, for example, turns a 28.11, and the cut-off is a high 28 second lap, but for some reason the person in charge hears or writes 29.11, sending GOGHer home, would you find that at all acceptable? There was no heated exchange, as I heard from people that they were surprised how well I was dealing with it, until Brian opened his yap out of turn. He may have been having his own issues, such as running behind some precious schedule, but he cost me the only trophy dash appearance I would have had all year. Even the pit steward told me that France was in the wrong, as while BF was taking away my license, the scorer confirmed I was indeed 1 full second faster than the official pit board said. It cost me a good ride, as at the end of the season I was let go. If I had raced the dash, and followed through with a good finish in the main, which also was highly likely as the car was fast all day, I would have more than likely improved my average finish for the year, thus keeping the ride.

You, as an eight year fan of the sport, know better than I. Brian is indeed perfect, and every new scheme he comes up with improves the whole NASCAR experience for competitors and fans alike. Right?

You may not like what BF did, and as I said earlier, he may have been in the wrong, but that doesn't matter.

You appear unable to see the forest because all those dang trees keep getting in the way.

auntysquat - 19 November 2009 08:12 PM

johnalex1273 - 19 November 2009 05:40 PM

Lovey-Dovey - 19 November 2009 04:13 PM

auntysquat - 19 November 2009 01:52 PM

^ You're older than dirt. Had electronic timing been invented yet, or were they clocking the cars with a sundial?

You may now re-rant.

At the time, it was a light and a stopwatch, no transponders yet.

What do you mean a light and a stopwatch?

Night race. Flashlight and 2 analog pocketwatches on an aluminum clipboard.

Do you still have yours or were those Hillin's?

Hillin took them back when he canned me.

Lovey-Dovey - 19 November 2009 09:52 PM

johnalex1273 - 19 November 2009 05:40 PM

Lovey-Dovey - 19 November 2009 04:13 PM

auntysquat - 19 November 2009 01:52 PM

^ You're older than dirt. Had electronic timing been invented yet, or were they clocking the cars with a sundial?

You may now re-rant.

At the time, it was a light and a stopwatch, no transponders yet.

What do you mean a light and a stopwatch?

One of those timing lights at the start finish line, and the head scorer used a hand held stopwatch.

But why was he using a stop watch if you had a timing light? I assume it could be for back up purposes but which time did he go by?

speedfan - 20 November 2009 08:01 AM

Talon64 - 19 November 2009 08:38 PM

speedfan - 19 November 2009 08:22 PM

Without the France family there arguably would not have been a sport to enjoy.

The first two generations of the family did a fantastic job in molding NASCAR into what it became before Brian France took over.

So far Brian appears to be proving the saying that the first generation creates, the second generation perfects and the third generation destroys, regardless of what happens in his private life.

I am quite sure that during the time of the first two generations there were just as many fans who thought they were killing NASCAR. It is only in retropect that their contributions can be viewed with objectivity and that they may be heralded for those contributions.

superb contribution, speedfan

speedfan - 19 November 2009 08:22 PM

Hobby Man Bill - 19 November 2009 08:05 PM

EXCUSE ME MAAM!!!

Brian France has given televised interviews in which he was obviously drunk (or high) so that even the press commented on it. He has been a poster boy for whats wrong with corp. America in general and NASCAR in particular. That you chose to defend him and his minions is up to you, but don't expect me to treat you with kid gloves while you're doing it. I have yet to see any objectivity on your part when it comes to BF,MH or NASCAR and they're rulings. I don't hate him, I simply point out what he's done to hurt a sport I enjoy and have for over 50 years. I do hate the attitude he has towards the people that allow NASCAR to perpetuate his rule. The owners,crews and drivers IMHO deserve better then him, hopefully that will happen sooner rather then later. AA JMHO

Bill

You are excused.

This is my eighth season watching NASCAR and I have yet to see an interview with BF where he appeared to be in any way intoxicated. You appear to see what you want to see.

You say that you have enjoyed this sport for 50 years. Without the France family there arguably would not have been a sport to enjoy.

I, too have seen interviews where I would question his sobriety... maybe he was just "tired"...

SolidEther - 20 November 2009 10:51 AM

speedfan - 20 November 2009 08:01 AM

Talon64 - 19 November 2009 08:38 PM

speedfan - 19 November 2009 08:22 PM

Without the France family there arguably would not have been a sport to enjoy.

The first two generations of the family did a fantastic job in molding NASCAR into what it became before Brian France took over.

So far Brian appears to be proving the saying that the first generation creates, the second generation perfects and the third generation destroys, regardless of what happens in his private life.

I am quite sure that during the time of the first two generations there were just as many fans who thought they were killing NASCAR. It is only in retropect that their contributions can be viewed with objectivity and that they may be heralded for those contributions.

superb contribution, speedfan

I agree... very nicely put. Big words too !

Taken at today's press conference.

Yeeeeeeah, he looks fine to me...