winters - 27 November 2009 03:48 PM

garyb425 - 27 November 2009 03:18 PM

winters - 27 November 2009 02:53 PM

Almost every National Superbike series in the world uses rules similar to DMG Superbike rules ,except the DMG allows the bikes to use electronic aides , and most other National series do not . The BSB series is the only National series that uses WSBK rules ,but verry few bikes on the BSB grid are WSBK spec bikes since most of the teams can not afford to race WSBK spec bikes .

And very few bikes were at the limit of the old AMA rules - but you cannot compare what the Australian National could afford to what the US could afford. There are 21 million Aussies and over 300 million of us.

There might be 300 million Americans ,but most Americans have no intrest in Motorcycle racing ,and that's why companies are not willing to suport the sport ,so it does not matter how many people live in the USA .

No, the factories are not willing to support the DMG series. There has never been large scale fan support of racing in the US, but because of the size and relative wealth of the population even a niche sport is worth it for the advertising - unless the series is run by ignorant fools.

If the vast majority of the fans aren't bothering to pay attention why should the factories spend money on it?

damattaspeed - 27 November 2009 05:30 PM

the new BSB rules MANDATE only 1 bike per rider in 2010.

If you throw facts in you'll just confuse him.

garyb425 - 27 November 2009 07:56 PM

No, the factories are not willing to support the DMG series. There has never been large scale fan support of racing in the US, but because of the size and relative wealth of the population even a niche sport is worth it for the advertising - unless the series is run by ignorant fools.

If the vast majority of the fans aren't bothering to pay attention why should the factories spend money on it?

I'm sure MFJ saw what happened in the AMA, and they are dying to have the same thing happen?

Will you please think things through for a change?

Commodore Edmondson doesn't have the ability to force MFJ to adopt AMA rules. The AMA rules are coming from the Japanese manufacturers. After the American distributors refused the WSBK, Superstock, and FX rules package; Edmdondson went to Japan so he could get out in front of the changes and brand the new rulebook.

That makes sense. The Japanese will support the AMA rule book in MFJ, but they can't force the American distributors to support the AMA rulebook when the American motorcycle market is in complete shambles.

thewon4 - 28 November 2009 03:02 AM

garyb425 - 27 November 2009 07:56 PM

No, the factories are not willing to support the DMG series. There has never been large scale fan support of racing in the US, but because of the size and relative wealth of the population even a niche sport is worth it for the advertising - unless the series is run by ignorant fools.

If the vast majority of the fans aren't bothering to pay attention why should the factories spend money on it?

I'm sure MFJ saw what happened in the AMA, and they are dying to have the same thing happen?

Will you please think things through for a change?

Commodore Edmondson doesn't have the ability to force MFJ to adopt AMA rules. The AMA rules are coming from the Japanese manufacturers. After the American distributors refused the WSBK, Superstock, and FX rules package; Edmdondson went to Japan so he could get out in front of the changes and brand the new rulebook.

That makes sense. The Japanese will support the AMA rule book in MFJ, but they can't force the American distributors to support the AMA rulebook when the American motorcycle market is in complete shambles.

won4, maybe you should think things through. AMA rules are coming from Edmondson himself, not the manufacturers. How can you make that statement when Suzuki, Honda, and Kawasaki all have made statements, in print, with their displeasure with AMA/DMG rules. Funny how the big four turn over superbike racing in the US to privateer teams like Graves and Yosh, and yet run full factory teams in WSBK, BSB, and the TT. AMA rules are coming from the Japanese! Didn't you say some time ago, that it was the big 4 who was ruining the AMA for not supporting DMG!

here won4 is a statement that you made on another topic.

"The business model is fine,(your statement about the AMA) they just need to work on the technical regs (again the AMA) and they (AMA) need to follow through with the satellite bike program. People need to tell Honda and Kawasaki to get back on track and quit crying."

So, if the Japaneses manufacturers are making the rules in AMA, they should already be on board. Plus, how many times have we heard you say, it was the Japaneses that where ruining AMA. But now they are the ones writing the AMA rule book!

thewon4 - 28 November 2009 03:02 AM

garyb425 - 27 November 2009 07:56 PM

No, the factories are not willing to support the DMG series. There has never been large scale fan support of racing in the US, but because of the size and relative wealth of the population even a niche sport is worth it for the advertising - unless the series is run by ignorant fools.

If the vast majority of the fans aren't bothering to pay attention why should the factories spend money on it?

I'm sure MFJ saw what happened in the AMA, and they are dying to have the same thing happen?

Will you please think things through for a change?

Commodore Edmondson doesn't have the ability to force MFJ to adopt AMA rules. The AMA rules are coming from the Japanese manufacturers. After the American distributors refused the WSBK, Superstock, and FX rules package; Edmdondson went to Japan so he could get out in front of the changes and brand the new rulebook.

That makes sense. The Japanese will support the AMA rule book in MFJ, but they can't force the American distributors to support the AMA rulebook when the American motorcycle market is in complete shambles.

No, it's coming from the organizers, to lower costs. I never implied Edmondson's influence did anything there - I said racing is dead in Japan, the crowds are already small so they don't have to fear killing them. That was not the case here - DMG killed them.

I'd put money on MJF not having a clown announcing himself as a dictator and telling the fans that their opinions are unimportant like Edmondson did, stating clearly that safety was not his priority, thereby alienating the small remaining fan base.

No, I would guess that they learned a bit from DMG.

gsxr147 - 28 November 2009 05:38 AM

thewon4 - 28 November 2009 03:02 AM

garyb425 - 27 November 2009 07:56 PM

No, the factories are not willing to support the DMG series. There has never been large scale fan support of racing in the US, but because of the size and relative wealth of the population even a niche sport is worth it for the advertising - unless the series is run by ignorant fools.

If the vast majority of the fans aren't bothering to pay attention why should the factories spend money on it?

I'm sure MFJ saw what happened in the AMA, and they are dying to have the same thing happen?

Will you please think things through for a change?

Commodore Edmondson doesn't have the ability to force MFJ to adopt AMA rules. The AMA rules are coming from the Japanese manufacturers. After the American distributors refused the WSBK, Superstock, and FX rules package; Edmdondson went to Japan so he could get out in front of the changes and brand the new rulebook.

That makes sense. The Japanese will support the AMA rule book in MFJ, but they can't force the American distributors to support the AMA rulebook when the American motorcycle market is in complete shambles.

won4, maybe you should think things through. AMA rules are coming from Edmondson himself, not the manufacturers. How can you make that statement when Suzuki, Honda, and Kawasaki all have made statements, in print, with their displeasure with AMA/DMG rules. Funny how the big four turn over superbike racing in the US to privateer teams like Graves and Yosh, and yet run full factory teams in WSBK, BSB, and the TT. AMA rules are coming from the Japanese! Didn't you say some time ago, that it was the big 4 who was ruining the AMA for not supporting DMG!

Your post is so full of wrong information it is almost funny . First of all Yosh has ran the American Suzuki factory team for many years and they will do the same in 2010 . The same people that worked for the Yamaha factory team in 2009 are still going to be working with the team in 2010 ,but the team will be called Graves Yamaha for economic reasons . The only true factory team in BSB is the HM Plant Honda team ,and they cut budget and staff big time in 2009 ,so I'm not sure there even a factory team anymore . I also doubt any true factory teams run the TT,but they do use HM Plant bikes . Even in WSBK teams like Ten Kate Honda are not factory teams .

EVERY team in EVERY series cut budgets this year - that isn't news. Yamaha turning the whole effort over to Graves is not the same as a full factory effort - and Honda and Kawasaki walked away. I would be willing to bet you, if it could be proved, that Yosh is getting a good bit less support from Suzuki as well, but Yosh has consistently proven that they will keep racing even with no support from Suzuki.

Remember, since you are comparatively new to the game winters, that while it has been Yoshimura Suzuki for years, it was Yoshimura Honda before it was Yoshimura Kawasaki. They are committed to racing, with or without support. Pops loved it and instilled the love of racing into his organization.

gsxr147 - 28 November 2009 05:38 AM

won4, maybe you should think things through. AMA rules are coming from Edmondson himself, not the manufacturers. How can you make that statement when Suzuki, Honda, and Kawasaki all have made statements, in print, with their displeasure with AMA/DMG rules. Funny how the big four turn over superbike racing in the US to privateer teams like Graves and Yosh, and yet run full factory teams in WSBK, BSB, and the TT. AMA rules are coming from the Japanese! Didn't you say some time ago, that it was the big 4 who was ruining the AMA for not supporting DMG!

It's confusing b/c we all use "manufacturer" to refer to both the American distributors and the Japanese OEMs. The American distributors have all voiced concerns about the new rules or they have gone AWOL or they have withdrawn. The Japanese factories have said nothing.

I don't have any problem with the Japanese manufacturers, though I don't think factory teams are necessary for production bike racing. I do have a problem with the American distributors who have ruined the AMA for bogus marketing reasons. Supersport was the only high-profile class that offered fierce racing. Nobody cared about SStk. SBK and FX were F1 processions. After the NA distributors refused to ratify WSBK, SStk, FX rules; Edmondson gave up on them. All of us should have given up on the NA distributors, but some fans can't break the addiction.

WSBK rules cost a small fortune, and the Japanese factories probably don't want WSBK rules adopted all over the world. They probably want stock bikes that require very few factory-specific upgrades (engine parts, gearing). They probably want to allow only parts modifications that would not be provided by the factory like brakes, exhaust, chains, sprockets, clutches, suspension, etc.

Sportsbike racing is dying everywhere b/c sportbikes are only a fraction of the high-displacement marketplace, and they are a a miniscule part of the global sales market. No reason to spend tens of millions on development parts when they can make a show for far less money by racing Superstock bikes.

The American distributors have been hellbent on stealing marketshare for a long time b/c the US market is pretty static. The Japanese don't seem terribly concerned with stealing marketshare. They want to cut costs and raise total industry sales.

In Japan scooters sell, motorcycles don't. In this country no one buys scooters. There is no comparison by market.