This year we witnessed in a couple of occasions in qualifying that the track becomes faster by the minute in qualifying. In particularly Ferrari got slammed thinking that they had the time to get into Q3 and therefore parking the car early and eventually missing the entry to Q3.

I am curious, does that mean that back in the days that each car was qualifying individually, the last cars had an unfair advantage because the track became faster? I thought the reason they changed that was that they wanted the people at the races to have a better show seeing a bunch of cars running instead of one by one.

I personally used to like the TV coverage a lot better back then since we could actually watch the quali laps of every driver individually. There were some very spectacular moments that are not captured any more.

Yes, they changed it to make a better show. And yes, the drivers who went out later had an advantage.

I love the qualifying format as it is. It is very exciting. The last minute and a half of Q3 is great to watch. It is a bit more fair too, because everyone is qualifying in the same conditions.

I don't like the knockout format. It gives extra track time to the fastest cars.

mustang6172 - 26 July 2009 05:46 PM

I don't like the knockout format. It gives extra track time to the fastest cars.

Oh, c'mon. These are professional drivers, who have already had 3 hour and a half practice sessions on the track. an extra 10 minutes is nothing.

I don't know where this "knockout format" came from and I don't really understant it. When I first got interested in the sport back in the late 60s, "qualifying" on a road circuit meant two things:

( 1 ) Everyone went out on the track at the same time and drove as fast as they could. All laps were timed, and which ever hot lap a driver put together was his qualifying time. If he couldn't get an empty stretch of track long enough to do an unimpeded lap, tough. You could claim any time from Friday or Saturday.

( 2 ) The fastest X number of cars were in the race, period. The only "special circumstance" would be an exemption for previous World Champion drivers, who were "grandfathered" into the field, provided they weren't bog slow.

In all of this, there was no discussion of which tyres the driver used or how much fuel he carried on board. The tyres were changed for something capable of lasting 200 miles and everyone started on full tanks because there were no pit stops. What you had at the start was what you had for the race.

Now? The qualification proceedures have gotten Macchiavelian, or at least Rube Goldberg-like. And starting on "whatever was in the tank when qualifying ended," or "whatever we felt like putting in the tank according to our strategy" is unnecessarily complicated.

Personally, I'd like to see everyone have the same amount of practice and qualifying time. I would also like to see everyone start on full tanks. That way, no one has an advantage at the start of the race. Once you've used up your first fuel load, then you can start playing the "fuel strategy" game, but not before.

seriously, if you're fast, you're fast, conversely, if you're slow, you're slow. The only reason that FOTA wants to change is cuz they want to put their stamp on everything, return to the old way where everyone gets a chance and Ferrari wins....period. The knockout quali is the best way...everyone gets fair shot...if you want to wait til the last seconds... do it. if you want to be first out...do it. if you are slow, you don't pass...period. if you get stuck in traffic, should have prepared better....don't these cars have electronic detectors that show where all cars are on the track at all times, and they still cry when toro rosso or force india holds them up....?? listen if you can't top off your gas before the race, make it that way for everyone...and they have. now, should they be able to top off before the race, I don't see why not, but what is the big deal about FOTA wanting to ban refueling during the race, why not just get rid of the pit stop all together then, everyone can just race what ya brought.

They should go back to single car qualifying as it seems the teams want a clear track while their running anyway. I like the current format. As for refueling, they should also ban tire changes also. If you run out of gas or damage a tire it's game over. Good drivers know how to manage their tires. They wanted more racing this year with the new car design but track position has all but come down to pitting. I think all teams should qualify and start on the same fuel load, make the teams race each other instead of using pit strategy.

GreyWolf74 - 26 July 2009 07:17 PM

I don't know where this "knockout format" came from and I don't really understant it. When I first got interested in the sport back in the late 60s, "qualifying" on a road circuit meant two things:

( 1 ) Everyone went out on the track at the same time and drove as fast as they could. All laps were timed, and which ever hot lap a driver put together was his qualifying time. If he couldn't get an empty stretch of track long enough to do an inimpeded lap, tough. You could claim any time from Friday or Saturday.

( 2 ) The fastest X number of cars were in the race, period. The only "special circumstance" would be an exemption for previous World Champion drivers, who were "grandfathered" into the field, provided they weren't bog slow.

In all of this, there was no discussion of which tyres the driver used or how much fuel he carried on board. The tyres were changed for something capable of lasting 200 miles and everyone started on full tanks because there were no pit stops. What you had at the start was what you had for the race.

Now? The qualification proceedures have gotten Macchiavelian, or at least Rube Goldberg-like. And starting on "whatever was in the tank when qualifying ended," or "whatever we felt like putting in the tank according to our strategy" is unnecessarily complicated.

Personally, I'd like to see everyone have the same amount of practice and qualifying time. I would also like to see everyone start on full tanks. That way, no one has an advantage at the start of the race. Once you've used up your first fuel load, then you can start playing the "fuel strategy" game, but not before.

I would like to see the teams run any fuel load they want during qualifying (meaning they would run light), start on full tanks, and run any tire they want and not be required to run some third rate shoe just to amuse Max & company.

Let them actually race!

RallyFan2 - 04 August 2009 07:58 PM

I would like to see the teams run any fuel load they want during qualifying (meaning they would run light), start on full tanks, and run any tire they want and not be required to run some third rate shoe just to amuse Max & company.

Let them actually race!

Yes, that was basically my idea. Simplify qualifying, stop fidding with the format and try to cut down on the fuel strategies, etc. Love to see it happen, but I doubt it will. Someone always has "a better idea," which is worth less than nothing and causes more damage than it solves.

As with a lot of stuff I mention here, it dates back to the free-and-open era of the late 60s and early 70s. (What can I say? It's when I bought my first copy of Sports Car Graphic and got hooked on the sport.)

In those days, the rules and the cars were simpler. Drivers used special "qualifying special" tyres that were good for maybe five laps and had just one or two really hot laps in them, after which, they were junk. Race tyres were harder and more durable, so race laps were often a second or two slower than qualifying times. There were even special "qualification" engines that produced prodigious power (rumours of 1200 bhp or more during the turbo era) that ran very quickly but had the longevity of a grenade with the pin gone and the clip missing.

Engines that lasted ten laps and tyres that went off after two or three were expensive and complicated to manage. That's why we now have the choice-of-two-tyres-only and the engine longevity rules. They haven't made racing any better, and certanly not cheaper -- Ferrari's annual budget is about $450 million, which would sponsor entire series (all the participants for the full year) quite nicely in this country.

That said, you have to wonder how much more the current techno-wars would cost if the rules were as free as they were in 1968.

Single Car Qualifying Sucked. It was beyond boring. I liked the old qualifying scheme, but it was a little boring when nobody came out for the first 30 minutes and the track was so jammed at the end that you cound not get a time. I like the current system becasue it's a bit like three mini races...even more so now that the cars are a little closer in performance.

SLOWDOG - 06 August 2009 02:17 PM

Single Car Qualifying Sucked. It was beyond boring. I liked the old qualifying scheme, but it was a little boring when nobody came out for the first 30 minutes and the track was so jammed at the end that you cound not get a time. I like the current system becasue it's a bit like three mini races...even more so now that the cars are a little closer in performance.

That's really the only reason we have knockout, to guarantee more cars on track for the fans.