Pitstop - 03 July 2009 04:56 PM

cmratech - 03 July 2009 12:04 PM

one thing big bill the bully showed every one is you will do things his way, right or wrong. any ? refer to bill rule #1 and do not want to know what the rules are. in any other corporate company, this is called monopoly and is illegal, not just the drug issue but all the fines and suspensions that are different for different teams, the courts are going to step in on all this crap and maybe tell nascrap to be consistant with what you do or get out of the pond

There are other stock car racing series, so NASCAR doesn't hold a monopoly on the genre.

They are the santioning body for one group of racing series, and as such, they have the absolute right to set the rules at events they sanction. If you don't like their rules, race in another series, or watch another series. There are options.

Umm ... I think NASCAR's absolute right just took a hell of a beating. In fact, is it not because NASCAR does not have absolute right that this mess is in court?

auntysquat - 03 July 2009 06:09 PM

I'm glad you're having a good time.

I have no doubt you and others will continue this discussion. What I posted was one of my few contributions to said discussion. That is all ... do carry on.

As an aside, how much money do you suppose is involved in the entry, complete preparation, transportation and at-track operation of a lower-level go or go-home Cup car? Maybe the court date and the decision came too late. Maybe Mr. Mayfail and his lawyer will point to his non-arrival at Daytona in the course of the civil litigation. Maybe, maybe, maybe ...

Making declarations about what he should have done is easy.

Other than the published amount of a late entry fee being $5,005, I'm not sure as to what it would cost.

A year ago, a refrigerated tractor trailer with driver from NY to FL was $2,100.00, but that was when gas was at its highest, and the trip is half the length, he probably owns his own hauler, so I would put transportation at under $1,000 one way.

Prepping the car - they had a month, still have 4 employees working, I dunno.

Engine lease - depends on from whom.

Of course he hasn't paid Triad or BDR for bodies and bodywork, so I guess he would either have to pay cash up front, find another supplier or do the work himself.

Pit crew - he would probably have to hire a NW crew to pit his car if he made the race.

It would probably cost more than $10K, not including the engine, but if he had the injunction a week earlier, it would still cost that much. And it will cost just as much to go to Chicago next week.

On the other hand, $286 to fly into Orlando form Charlotte (round trip), figure maybe $200 for a rental car to get to Daytona, and he shows how important it was to be there for a reasonable amount of money and a few hours of his time.

Perception is as important as reality.

outback - 03 July 2009 06:21 PM

Pitstop - 03 July 2009 04:56 PM

cmratech - 03 July 2009 12:04 PM

one thing big bill the bully showed every one is you will do things his way, right or wrong. any ? refer to bill rule #1 and do not want to know what the rules are. in any other corporate company, this is called monopoly and is illegal, not just the drug issue but all the fines and suspensions that are different for different teams, the courts are going to step in on all this crap and maybe tell nascrap to be consistant with what you do or get out of the pond

There are other stock car racing series, so NASCAR doesn't hold a monopoly on the genre.

They are the santioning body for one group of racing series, and as such, they have the absolute right to set the rules at events they sanction. If you don't like their rules, race in another series, or watch another series. There are options.

Umm ... I think NASCAR's absolute right just took a hell of a beating. In fact, is it not because NASCAR does not have absolute right that this mess is in court?

The mess is in court over the accuracy of the test results.

Without reading the judge's reasoning behind the injunction, the one word from his ruling that I do remember (meth-head) leads me to the conclusion that that's what they're doing - questioning the accuracy, not the ability to administer it.

Pitstop - 03 July 2009 05:46 PM

ironeagle2006 - 03 July 2009 05:33 PM

Let see here hey gets his injunction at what 430 PM Wedensday night. Even if they had the car in the hauler not very likely since they would have to prep the car for Daytona you know the Important crap like Rear End Tranny and ENGINE. Say they get on the road to Daytona at Midnight that would be Pushing it. If you are using a single driver YOU CAN NOT MAKE IT within the DOT REGULATIONS it takes 13 HOURS of driving to get to Daytona without a single stop a Driver has to take a 10 hour break after 11. He would have needed a TEAM of 2 drivers to get there on time. Nascar knew he could not get there on time.

No one told him to wait until he had the signed injunction in his hand - he should have had the hauler on the way to Daytona, been parked outside the gate, and been the first one into the track...and had he lost, they could have turned around. That car could have been prepped at any time in the last month. And so what if he would have needed 2 CDL drivers - he could have hired an unemployed driver on a per diem basis.

Even if that were impossible, it doesn't take 13 hours to get his body down to Daytona even without his team. They have airplanes now and everything.

Ironeagle looks to be 100% right to me.

Also, Mayfield expected the injuction to be heard in a lower court several weeks ago. In between he has lost sponsors, lost 10 employees and much more. The situation itself, perhaps with some "advice" from those high up has ensured that no other team will allow Mayfield a drive. It's all changed for Mayfield but he is still legally "clean" of the what NASCAR claims he did.

On the other hand, he could well be waiting for his hair to grow a little more.

My point is, you don't know and I don't know. This makes your pronouncements and prophecies, most of which I believe have taken a beating as we progressively learn more, totally out of order. There are other colours besides black and white.

Pitstop - 03 July 2009 06:24 PM

Perception is as important as reality.

I have to agree with you there.

The leasing cost for 1 set of tires with inner liners is two grand. Add a zero to your number.

outback - 03 July 2009 06:28 PM

Pitstop - 03 July 2009 05:46 PM

ironeagle2006 - 03 July 2009 05:33 PM

Let see here hey gets his injunction at what 430 PM Wedensday night. Even if they had the car in the hauler not very likely since they would have to prep the car for Daytona you know the Important crap like Rear End Tranny and ENGINE. Say they get on the road to Daytona at Midnight that would be Pushing it. If you are using a single driver YOU CAN NOT MAKE IT within the DOT REGULATIONS it takes 13 HOURS of driving to get to Daytona without a single stop a Driver has to take a 10 hour break after 11. He would have needed a TEAM of 2 drivers to get there on time. Nascar knew he could not get there on time.

No one told him to wait until he had the signed injunction in his hand - he should have had the hauler on the way to Daytona, been parked outside the gate, and been the first one into the track...and had he lost, they could have turned around. That car could have been prepped at any time in the last month. And so what if he would have needed 2 CDL drivers - he could have hired an unemployed driver on a per diem basis.

Even if that were impossible, it doesn't take 13 hours to get his body down to Daytona even without his team. They have airplanes now and everything.

Ironeagle looks to be 100% right to me.

Also, Mayfield expected the injuction to be heard in a lower court several weeks ago. In between he has lost sponsors, lost 10 employees and much more. The situation itself, perhaps with some "advice" from those high up has ensured that no other team will allow Mayfield a drive. It's all changed for Mayfield but he is still legally "clean" of the what NASCAR claims he did.

On the other hand, he could well be waiting for his hair to grow a little more.

My point is, you don't know and I don't know. This makes your pronouncements and prophecies, most of which I believe have taken a beating as we progressively learn more, totally out of order. There are other colours besides black and white.

All I'm saying is exactly what I said earlier - if you claim exigent circumstances, play the game - get yourself down to Daytona however you do it, smile for the cameras so they see you're there (it also helps build a case for damages) - but if after all that, you don't go, it looks bad. And, like I also said, I didn't like how Poston worded his whining.

I never made any pronouncements, except to state what the elements were for an injuntion, something any first year law student could have done. As for prophecies, be real - I'd be a lottery winner living on Maui.

Pitstop - 03 July 2009 06:26 PM

outback - 03 July 2009 06:21 PM

Pitstop - 03 July 2009 04:56 PM

cmratech - 03 July 2009 12:04 PM

one thing big bill the bully showed every one is you will do things his way, right or wrong. any ? refer to bill rule #1 and do not want to know what the rules are. in any other corporate company, this is called monopoly and is illegal, not just the drug issue but all the fines and suspensions that are different for different teams, the courts are going to step in on all this crap and maybe tell nascrap to be consistant with what you do or get out of the pond

There are other stock car racing series, so NASCAR doesn't hold a monopoly on the genre.

They are the santioning body for one group of racing series, and as such, they have the absolute right to set the rules at events they sanction. If you don't like their rules, race in another series, or watch another series. There are options.

Umm ... I think NASCAR's absolute right just took a hell of a beating. In fact, is it not because NASCAR does not have absolute right that this mess is in court?

The mess is in court over the accuracy of the test results.

Without reading the judge's reasoning behind the injunction, the one word from his ruling that I do remember (meth-head) leads me to the conclusion that that's what they're doing - questioning the accuracy, not the ability to administer it.

With absolute respect, Pitstop, Mayfield's team is questioning everything about NASCAR's Substance Abuse Policy, it's implementation and it's procedural systems.

As I understand it, the SAP is a NASCAR rule which is maybe why Mayfield is suing NASCAR.


Yes, in the end the result will be some kind of decision as to whether or not the results of Mayfield's test can be believed, but it is NASCAR's absolute right to make rules that is under scrutiny. Why has NASCAR already changed the testing procedures?

Pitstop - 03 July 2009 06:06 PM

TeamRMP - 03 July 2009 05:59 PM

Brian France didn't really say NASCAR has the best drug policy in professional sports did he? He really needs to keep his mouth closed because every time he opens it he shows how he got where he is and it isn't brains.

Kind of, but not exactly, it reads a little less crazy than coming out and saying just that - LOL

http://www.nascar.com/2009/news/headlines/cup/07/03/bfrance.mayfield.drugpolicy.reaction.ap/index.html

It was how they had it quoted on jayski (yeah Yeah I know). NASCAR still has this problem of comparing themselves to the NFL and MLB but they'll never be in their league.

Has anyone found the transcripts from the hearing yet? As I have said a few times the junk that is spewed from both legal teams in the press is less than desired.

One of the things I have always been told is an injuction in federal court is hard to get because of the evidence that has to be presented to show that you have the ability to "win" the case should it go to trial....

A small victory and people are still calling him a drug addict in the press...NASCAR better make sure when this goes to trial they are ready...I stated in the other post some of the arguments that could be brought up and they more than likely will.

outback - 03 July 2009 06:38 PM

Pitstop - 03 July 2009 06:26 PM

outback - 03 July 2009 06:21 PM

Pitstop - 03 July 2009 04:56 PM

cmratech - 03 July 2009 12:04 PM

one thing big bill the bully showed every one is you will do things his way, right or wrong. any ? refer to bill rule #1 and do not want to know what the rules are. in any other corporate company, this is called monopoly and is illegal, not just the drug issue but all the fines and suspensions that are different for different teams, the courts are going to step in on all this crap and maybe tell nascrap to be consistant with what you do or get out of the pond

There are other stock car racing series, so NASCAR doesn't hold a monopoly on the genre.

They are the santioning body for one group of racing series, and as such, they have the absolute right to set the rules at events they sanction. If you don't like their rules, race in another series, or watch another series. There are options.

Umm ... I think NASCAR's absolute right just took a hell of a beating. In fact, is it not because NASCAR does not have absolute right that this mess is in court?

The mess is in court over the accuracy of the test results.

Without reading the judge's reasoning behind the injunction, the one word from his ruling that I do remember (meth-head) leads me to the conclusion that that's what they're doing - questioning the accuracy, not the ability to administer it.

With absolute respect, Pitstop, Mayfield's team is questioning everything about NASCAR's Substance Abuse Policy, it's implementation and it's procedural systems.

As I understand it, the SAP is a NASCAR rule which is maybe why Mayfield is suing NASCAR.


Yes, in the end the result will be some kind of decision as to whether or not the results of Mayfield's test can be believed, but it is NASCAR's absolute right to make rules that is under scrutiny. Why has NASCAR already changed the testing procedures?

There is an answer to your question, but I don't want to get accused of making "pronouncements and prophesies" again.

Seriously, in some states, subsequent repairs is not something that can be used to show there was a problem before - the whole public policy thing - so if I had to guess at why, it would be that they were lax at administering the tests, so now they are following the complete guidelines set out by the lab. Asking for ID, even though they know who the people are - that's what it kind of sounds like.

I haven't read that they will send any positive "B" samples to another lab yet, but hopefully they will. That's probably the biggest mistake they made and what will, if anything, ultimately get them in the end. Checks and balances are important, and they definitely over-looked that when setting the policy.

Whether it's Mayfield or anyone else, I hate to worry that someone is driving impaired on the track.