BTW,I used to be a huge NASCAR fan.The first race I attended was at the New Jersey State fairgrounds in Trenton in 1967,Richard Petty won.
NASCAR has morphed into racing I don't recognize or get into.Orchestrated finishes,cautions and too many rules "in the name of safety" have ruined it for me.That tells me the drivers ain't ready to run NASCAR's premier series,whatever it's called this week.
Race back to the flag on cautions,full chat into the pits under green,and the fastest cars make the race. THAT IS RACING!!! Screw the top 35 in points,that is crap,if you have a bad qualifying run,tough,go home and come back next race.

hdhar5 Depending on what history book you read, the 1st auto race was held somewhere in Europe in the 1800's. So, should all auto racing be held to the standards of that time and place simply because that's where it started? Times change. NASCAR is no more a South Eastern sport anymore than auto racing is a European sport in this time. This is not anything new. From day 1 Bill France Sr wanted NASCAR to be respected. He accepted "individualism" only so long as it did the sport more good then harm. Read the story of the famous dinner invite he sent Bodine, Earnhardt, Childress, & Hendrick. I don't like childish rants by anyone, but if drivers want to occasionally take a swing at each other I certainly don't mind watching. A
justified display of anger doesn't hurt, but expecting it to be a routine part of every dispute does. When someone posts that they aren't going to watch because there aren't enough fights, to me that person is a voyeur, not a fan.
PS: I traveled the country for 25 years as a trucker. The SE has plenty of fine people, but it has no monopoly on tough, determined, courteous individuals.

Cat-Man-Do - 09 March 2009 07:13 AM

hdhar5 - 08 March 2009 12:03 AM

Cat-Man-Do - 23 February 2009 06:38 PM
Besides, my TV came with a remote that allows me to change channels when a show irritates me. Didn't the rest of you get the same thing with yours?

Perhaps I wasn't clear in the post...it isn't about giving up and watching something else...it's about improving the sport that NASCAR---yes, NASCAR---has diluted with gimmicks in feeble attempts to "make the racing more exciting". Their so-called improvements have allienated the serious long-time fans. Read the posts, those who have complained the loudest are those who have followed this sport since back when the only race that was televised live was Daytona. NASCAR in it's attempt to "market" the sport has weakened it's natural appeal. That was the point of my post.

I don't disagree with some of your points, but here are some of my own:
The Chase came about because of fan discontent. In the years leading up to it by the time the last 10 races came around it was pretty well decided which 2 or 3 drivers were going to be fighting for the championship. You could miss a race or 2 and see no significant change in the points standings for the top 5 or 10 drivers when you did tune back in. Go back over the last 30 years and you will not find more then 4 or 5 drivers with a realistic chance at the title with 10 races to go. Drivers sometimes clinched the title with 3 or 4 races to go. The final straw was when Matt Kennseth earned his title in his typical low-key manner with only 1 race win that season. Now you have 12 drivers with a near equal chance to win. Standings change race by race, and as last year, it may not be decided till the last lap of the last race. It's not perfect, but it works, and as we've seen, no matter how NASCAR does it, someone is going to complain.
These drivers are professionals, and are paid good money to be so. Voicing an opinion in a professional manner is far different from ranting in the heat of the moment or childish displays such as Kyle Busch's ( a driver whose abilities I respect) comments after winning the 1st race for the COT. If you want the world to show some respect for the sport, then the participants have to be the 1st ones to show it some respect.
NASCAR does a pretty decent job on the whole, IMO. They don't get it right every time, but show me any sanctioning body of any sport that does.
Finally, The pre and post-race shows and the race coverage itself are all produced by the networks, not NASCAR. NASCAR doesn't put the commentators in the booth nor Digger in the ground. NASCAR post the start time of the races. How much time the networks spend building up to the race and how they fill that time is their decision. I suggest you complain to them. I tune in for the race, and rarely watch the pre and post-race because a lot of it irritates me also. If enough people do that, then maybe the networks will start to get the message.

Spoken like a true race fan.

Cat-Man-Do---Just saying they (the powers that be at NASCAR) should remember the roots of the sport, where it came from and the fans that supported it when it wasn't so marketable. Wasn't saying that the South was the only place in America where you could find tough, determined and courteous people...

^NASCAR has acknowledged that it has strayed from it's roots and needs to backtrack a bit. At the start of last season NASCAR said it would be more tolerant of drivers "expressing" themselves, and they have been. Regardless, NASCAR is on the world stage now and it's fan base covers far more then the S.E. and "good old days" fans who are tuning in longing for fist fights on pit road. (Which weren't that common even in "the good old days"). Anyone waiting for that better move their 'fridge closer to their easy chair. They're in for a long wait, IMO.

Yeah, their "tolerance" led to a complete 180 by Stewart after bashing NASCAR on his Sirius radio show and then making a very public apology two days later.

^I don't know the circumstances of Tony's actions. If you do then I would certainly be interested in hearing about them. As I recall, there were several incidents in the early part of last season where drivers were either vocal or physical to the point that in previous years they would have been penalized, yet they weren't. Tony is known for going off the deep end when upset. What, if anything, was said to him, and by whom, is information I don't have. If you do, then I would be happy to discuss it.
You are certainly entitled to your viewpoint, but I stand by mine. People who are tuning in to see fights in the pits instead of battles on the track are going to be disappointed, and rightly so. It's racing, not wrestling. I prefer to see NASCAR gain the respect I feel it deserves from the world of motorsports for being a professional series with some darn good racing.
One of the toughest drivers to ever climb in a race car was Dale Sr., and I don't recall ever seeing him in a pitroad fight. He spoke his mind, but he knew where the limits were, and if he needed to settle something, he did it on the track. If he got penalized, he accepted it, satisfied apparently in knowing he had "evened" things out. To me, that's racing, not a hockey brawl in the pits.

Cat---My point was exactly that...the way racing was when Sr. raced. I think things should be handled on the track to some extent. I don't think there are but a handful of guys who have the talent even close to what Earnhardt had. However, I do not mind seeing the drivers voice their opinions openly without being censored.
I think drivers like Kyle Busch, Scott Speed, Robby Gordon and others who say what they feel are good for the sport. Not that I don't respect the opinions of Jeff Gordon, Jeff Burton, Jimmie Johnson and the others who qualify their remarks not to "upset" NASCAR; I just like to see the passion and the emotions come out a bit.
What I was referring to concerning Tony Stewart was comments he made comparing NASCAR to professional wrestling. Of course, he was heated and was just Tony being Tony...but...before racing the next weekend he made sure to publicly apologize at a press conference for his remarks. That, I think, is ridiculous! This is still America, right?

^Maybe Tony just calmed down and felt an apology was in order. Maybe Mike Helton or Brian France had a talk with him. I don't see censorship. I see drivers and team owners speaking their mind and NASCAR reminding them of the realities if things went too far. Bill France Sr and Jr never hesitated to tell drivers and owners that they could go back where they came from if they didn't do things NASCAR's way. That was as much a part of the "good old days" as open face helmets and cheap goggles.
I assume you either have worked for others or employed people in your lifetime. Maybe both. If you were unhappy about something at work did you climb on a soapbox and start spewing abusive, disrespectful remarks to anyone who would listen? Would it have surprised you if your employer told you to either get off the soapbox or take a hike? Why do you expect NASCAR to be different from any other business?

Cat---Okay...

I stick with my original post. There are certainly things wrong with NASCAR, things that have alienated many of its' long-time fans. I think it is a fact that cannot be denied. I listed what I feel is "wrong". I, also, listed some things I think would improve the sport. We can go back and forth on basic semantics for the rest of the season.
As I said in a prior post, I respect your opinion and I appreciate that you allow me to have mine, which you may or may not agree with, without resorting to trash talking. It is refreshing to have an intelligent debate with someone who is informed and honestly enjoys the sport.