Toseland's passes on Rossi were as hard as any moves he made on anyone else from my perspective, the key is that rossi beat Toseland and didn't feel the need to cry about it. Toseland pushed hard on the last lap and ran wide. It happens.

So a public apology is all that's needed if you make a stupid mistake? That's a little much...

Toseland: We ran a bit wide and Andrea seemed a bit upset but I passed him without touching him. I am sorry if he is upset, but he is upset for no reason.

Poor Dovi, another wronged Italian... Oh, and Toseland was WAY ahead of Capirossi, and in front of Dovi - so who is hanging out at the back?

it just seems like too much work to be so nationalistic... it is soooooo much easier to just be consistent across the board on opinions...

robertorolfo - 08 October 2008 10:26 AM

Ok, I am the one who can't see things fairly? You guys all want to compare different riders/situations to Toseland... and that is somehow fair?

And Bellwhiff, you come from the country that loves to chide Americans for being boorish, uncuth and generally tacky... yet your own country is known the world over hooliganism, drunkeness and goonishness. You redicule the French for being snobby, then act like snobs with regards to Americans. This, my friend, is the very definition of hypocrisy.


Look, Simoncelli made a mistake with his move on Bautista. He admitted as much and that was that. He said he forced the move, and he was 100% aware that it didn't go well. He didn't accuse Bautista of being a whiner, nor did he give Bautista the finger. And, this was an isolated incident. The two of them have beeing going at it and racing hard all year long... and there has been only this incident. Not to mention that they were racing at the front, for the win... and both are title contenders.

Toseland on the other hand, showed no remorse after making his mistakes. And this isn't an isolated incident. He has made other mistakes and annoyed other riders (that is the point of the old Capirossi quote). Tosleand hasn't been in a lot of battles towards the front (cause he wasn't at the front) but most of those he has been in seem to have stirred some controversy. So his riding is more the rule rather than the exception (as in the case of Sic).

Rolfo pulled out of line to think about a pass on the brakes, and he immediately found a wet patch on the track (which was the part right after that crest). He locked up the front eary on, and the rest was just an effort to avoid the enevitable. It wasn't a rash move, but rather a mistake on a partially wet track. And, again, he was apologetic for it.

When Toseland lost it in the wet at Silverstone last year, severly balking Rolfo in the process, nobody (myself included) criticized him for that... it was a racing incident, not a stupid move.


Finally, with regard to Valentino's comments... they must be taken seperately. His racing with Valentino is sperate from his racing with Dovi. This is just logic, but can also be deciphered from the quotes. After the race Toseland said he was "honored" to be racing with Vale. He obviously respects Rossi for being the god that he is... so do you honestly believe that he is going to race Rossi the same way he races a young Italian kid that he resents because said kid has more talent and has thoroughly shown him up this year on a crap bike with the same Michelin tires James has? Do you expect Toseland to treat the Spanish phenom who has simillarly shown him up the same way he treats Rossi?

Annnd.... did Toseland try an move on Rossi that cuased both to run wide and lose position? No. If he did, you can imagine Rossi's comments being different.


And for all the Toseland leg humpers, get over it. He passed Rossi when Rossi wasn't really paying attention (his own words) for 4th place! Wow. Take a look at Melandri dicing with Rossi from a few years ago... for the lead.

Enough... I'm stiking with Dovi, Lorenzo and Capirossi on this one. You guys can side with James, and hang out with him at the back all you want.

Even by your pathetic standard, that was lame, and I didn't think that you could get any lamer than the pile of pump that you usually bore us with.

You DO have a real problem with the British don't you?

Have you ever actually been to the UK? What dark secret from your past causes this paranoia? Did you get caught by your mum knocking one out over a picture of Elizabeth Hurley?

You are a certified tool. You have no objectivity. I root for JT but it isn't at the detriment of any other riders nationality.

Bellwhiff - 09 October 2008 02:03 PM

You DO have a real problem with the British don't you?

He can't get over that world championship round, Mussolini v. Churchill. Churchill won, and you know how pro-Italian RR is...

if Churchill had not made that bump pass, no way Mussulini gets his melon booted about in the town square... dirty pool i tell ya...

#### elizabeth hurley is pretty hot, what about keira knightley?

i think all of this is bs.

dovizioso can have a problem with what happens, obviously he felt wronged. but i doubt he is going to hold a grudge.
lorenzo should shut the hell up really, he still got 4th place, he has no reason to complain.
i didn't see nakano making a big deal about the situation, simply put it just happens in racing.

i didn't like what went down with laguna, with rossi and stoner but both made amends, and it was just racing.
everyone is making a big deal about this, and i am glad with toseland the way he has acted.

it is a put up or shut up attitude, and one that i respect.
i don't like how lorenzo and dovizioso handled it, more so lorenzo because his position wasn't even affected, he was never going to catch hayden or rossi. i can see a little bit about dovizioso, but regardless stop being a puss and race.

Toseland's passes on Rossi were as hard as any moves he made on anyone else from my perspective, the key is that rossi beat Toseland and didn't feel the need to cry about it. Toseland pushed hard on the last lap and ran wide. It happens.

NO WAY . You know im not afraid to criticize Toseland on this board but he was looking A LOT better this last race . I was expecting him to hit everyone infront but he missed them It was a very clean race for JT , maybe he is learning ? We'll see ..... anyway , i was impressed only with his clean passes he's still no good

Pushing someone wide in a turn cause you are out of control and going to hit them (and running yourself wide in the process and losing positions) is not "suberbike" riding, that is being a goon and being wrong.

RR i think you describing the start of the last lap on donington . You know Simoncelli forced Bautista WIDE and Kallio passed them both

Bellwhiff - 09 October 2008 02:03 PM

Even by your pathetic standard, that was lame, and I didn't think that you could get any lamer than the pile of pump that you usually bore us with.

Pile of pump? What? You don't even bother to try and argue the facts. All you ever do is try to throw insults and sound clever... cause you know you can't argue the facts. The facts don't support you, and you wouldn't be capable of using them even if they did. You think you are funny but you are just a fool. You are the guy sitting in the corner and laughing to himself. You hide behind your computer because you don't have to listen when people respond to the nonsense you put out, and make you look like the fool you are in the process. You are an idiot, and until you prove otherwise, will remain on. Britian is not happy to have citizens like you speaking on its behalf, I can assure you. Are are EXACTLY the typical British goon that other/normal Brits are painfully ashamed of.

Churchill and Musolini? Both were secondary players. It was Hitler and FDR. Churchill was a drunk and Musolini a fool.


Getting back to the point, NONE of you can argue the facts at hand. You can go off about thinking Dovi and Lorenzo are whiners, and you can say you don't think it was such a bad pass...

But the FACT remains that two rider (both of whoom are better than Toseland and don't have anything to prove) complained about what he did. The fact remains that many people (not just the riders, but in the media as well) are stating that Toseland went over the line on the last lap.

And yes, Toseland himself is an idiot (in the find mold of Bellwhiff) by saying, "there was no contact, so...) Really? So you run someone off the track, but if you don't physically touch them that is ok? Hey James, Dovi had to move out of the way to avoid being hit by you. Get a clue.

Oh, and in another quote from Dovi he talked about how foolish a guy like James lookes by acting tough and putting up such a huge fight against a guy on a lousy satelite bike, while James has a package capable of being at the front. Ha!

Italiapower, read Motosprint when it gets posted online. Lorenzo is pretty sure he could have caught Hayden if he wasn't held up so much.

When riders you like ride as Toseland did it's just racing, when Toseland does it then he should be banned.

Show me where a non-Italian/Spanish journalist (you know, the ones who aren't biased) say Toseland was way over the line.