Question:

With the night race it was easy to see just how much the titanium rub blocks were hitting.

Where are they located? Front? Rear? If on the rear, don't they defeat the purpose of the legality plank?

wilmywood8455 - 28 September 2008 09:18 AM

Question:

With the night race it was easy to see just how much the titanium rub blocks were hitting.

Where are they located? Front? Rear? If on the rear, don't they defeat the purpose of the legality plank?

No, Rub blocks keep the plank legal, wear in the plank by any more than 1mm is not allowed.

speedsense - 28 September 2008 09:59 AM

wilmywood8455 - 28 September 2008 09:18 AM

Question:

With the night race it was easy to see just how much the titanium rub blocks were hitting.

Where are they located? Front? Rear? If on the rear, don't they defeat the purpose of the legality plank?

No, Rub blocks keep the plank legal, wear in the plank by any more than 1mm is not allowed.

Ok, I'm still unclear, sorry.

They are in the plank area, and reduce the amount of wear on the plank? If so, doesn't that defeat the intent of the plank, to keep the cars from running too low?

wilmywood8455 - 28 September 2008 02:13 PM

speedsense - 28 September 2008 09:59 AM

wilmywood8455 - 28 September 2008 09:18 AM

Question:

With the night race it was easy to see just how much the titanium rub blocks were hitting.

Where are they located? Front? Rear? If on the rear, don't they defeat the purpose of the legality plank?

No, Rub blocks keep the plank legal, wear in the plank by any more than 1mm is not allowed.

Ok, I'm still unclear, sorry.

They are in the plank area, and reduce the amount of wear on the plank? If so, doesn't that defeat the intent of the plank, to keep the cars from running too low?

just below the plank, front and rear of the plank. The number of them depends on the design of the car, the placement is different on each car. There are there mostly to prevent the plank from hitting and putting wear into the plank, instead the car hits the ground with the rub block and not the plank.
The plank is mainly there to control how low the cars can be run.

I see wilmywood8455's point here:

The purpose of the legality plank is to keep the cars from riding too low, because that would wear the plank more than allowed. These titanium bits PREVENT the plank from wearing, so they can run the cars artificially lower without the plank wearing. So they are putting on a telltale device (the plank) to keep the cars legal and then adding something else (rub blocks) to prevent them from being "caught".

Why not get rid of the plank altogether and simply measure the amount of rub block worn off since that is what is wearing?

Another example of something simple that the FIA has managed to make complicated.

Vince

vince_h - 29 September 2008 02:31 PM

I see wilmywood8455's point here:

The purpose of the legality plank is to keep the cars from riding too low, because that would wear the plank more than allowed. These titanium bits PREVENT the plank from wearing, so they can run the cars artificially lower without the plank wearing. So they are putting on a telltale device (the plank) to keep the cars legal and then adding something else (rub blocks) to prevent them from being "caught".

Why not get rid of the plank altogether and simply measure the amount of rub block worn off since that is what is wearing?

Another example of something simple that the FIA has managed to make complicated.

Vince

When the plank was first mandated, the teams responded by purposely running the car on the plank and wearing the plank to get the cars lower during a race weekend. FIA's response was to comeback and mandate the acceptable thickness of the plank where even a scrape that was below the thickness was illegal.
The plank itself runs the full length of the bottom of the chassis below the drivers compartment.
In attempts to run the car as low as possible and not damage the plank, the rub blocks are positioned so that the blocks make contact and not the blank.
If the plank wasn't there, you would have teams redesigning the diffusioners and aero parts under the car to gain ground effect advantages. The plank is another cost cutting measure by the FIA.

speedsense - 29 September 2008 03:14 PM

vince_h - 29 September 2008 02:31 PM

I see wilmywood8455's point here:

The purpose of the legality plank is to keep the cars from riding too low, because that would wear the plank more than allowed. These titanium bits PREVENT the plank from wearing, so they can run the cars artificially lower without the plank wearing. So they are putting on a telltale device (the plank) to keep the cars legal and then adding something else (rub blocks) to prevent them from being "caught".

Why not get rid of the plank altogether and simply measure the amount of rub block worn off since that is what is wearing?

Another example of something simple that the FIA has managed to make complicated.

Vince

When the plank was first mandated, the teams responded by purposely running the car on the plank and wearing the plank to get the cars lower during a race weekend. FIA's response was to comeback and mandate the acceptable thickness of the plank where even a scrape that was below the thickness was illegal.
The plank itself runs the full length of the bottom of the chassis below the drivers compartment.
In attempts to run the car as low as possible and not damage the plank, the rub blocks are positioned so that the blocks make contact and not the blank.
If the plank wasn't there, you would have teams redesigning the diffusioners and aero parts under the car to gain ground effect advantages. The plank is another cost cutting measure by the FIA.

So, if I'm understanding you correctly, the plank is currently more for configuration of the underbody than for ride height control?

Also, are the number, position and thickness of the rub blocks mandated?

wilmywood8455 - 29 September 2008 07:31 PM

When the plank was first mandated, the teams responded by purposely running the car on the plank and wearing the plank to get the cars lower during a race weekend. FIA's response was to comeback and mandate the acceptable thickness of the plank where even a scrape that was below the thickness was illegal.
The plank itself runs the full length of the bottom of the chassis below the drivers compartment.
In attempts to run the car as low as possible and not damage the plank, the rub blocks are positioned so that the blocks make contact and not the blank.
If the plank wasn't there, you would have teams redesigning the diffusioners and aero parts under the car to gain ground effect advantages. The plank is another cost cutting measure by the FIA.

So, if I'm understanding you correctly, the plank is currently more for configuration of the underbody than for ride height control?

No, the plank was to control ride height (how low they can run the car) and adds the thickness of the plank to how low they can run.

Also, are the number, position and thickness of the rub blocks mandated?

No, but the engineering of the rub blocks would be just far enough below the plank and enough of them front and rear, to prevent it wearing.

Ok, so here's what I see:

1) the plank is there to keep the cars from running too low

2) the blocks are there to keep the plank from wearing too much, therefore allowing the cars to run lower than they could without the blocks

3) therefore, the blocks defeat the purpose of the plank, don't they?

Am I missing something? Seems so. Doesn't make any sense to me, but this IS Formula One

Every explanation seems to contradict the interpretation of the regulation. Confusing rule.

wilmywood8455 - 01 October 2008 05:53 AM

Ok, so here's what I see:

1) the plank is there to keep the cars from running too low

true

wilmywood8455 - 01 October 2008 05:53 AM

2) the blocks are there to keep the plank from wearing too much, therefore allowing the cars to run lower than they could without the blocks

false. You're probably not "seeing" it correct there. Without the blocks, the cars wouldn't be able to run even lower as you stated. Imagine a car with no blocks, no plank. they would race that as low as possible (because of all the positive effects of that).

Now, introduce a plank, and tell the teams to make sure the plank doesn't wear more then 1mm. Immediately, they will run the cars higher, since otherwise the scrape the plank too much.
If they now mount blocks, which are lwoer to the ground then the plank, what would hit the track first? The blocks. After a session you measure the blocks, and see that in stead of being 5mm closer to the ground compared to the plank, they now only are 1mm lower to the track then the plank. Your conclusion: "blocks wore down 4 mm in 1 hour, the car effectively had such a low ride height at certain moments, that 4 mm was scraped off." Now the team knows, that the car went "deep", but they still have 1mm,; before the plank starts to wear. They know, judge what the race would be like (all fuelled up) and may decide to a) fit new blocks b)crank the car up a mm or so, to make sure an hours worth of driving, will probably only scrape off 3mm, in stead of the previous 4; leaving them at least 2mm safety, before the plank starts to wear.
(boy, it is so simple, yet so difficult to explain, sorry)