At the start, about 5 cars went wide into the escape route for a seeming variety of reasons, late breaking, missing the apex, being pushed out... Some were pushed, and others seemingly just went for it at full speed, rather than brake and let themselves be passed.

Then they all gunned it on the alternate, wide open, trafficless road to join the race as far forward as they could. Is that fair? They missed a turn, lost spots on track due to missing the turn, yet they took advatage of the runoff area to regain those spots. Raikkonen went back to 3rd, even though he was not pushed and he had plenty of room to brake and turn. Kovalainen I think was pushed, but he just gunned it as well...

Whats the rule on something like that? There is room on the track, but you miss a brake spot and you just take the access road to avoid getting passed?

I don't think that the FIA officials are going to make much of a fuss about cars overshooting a corner or running slowly and off line (longer distance). With the number of tracks having paved run off areas, there is sadly some potential that the drivers will overdrive the runoff areas. However, for the most part, those runoff areas either end abruptly, require the drivers to go over some grass, or to go over significant curbs. In all cases, taking the runoff area is slower than taking the other route.

The start of today's race was particularly messy because of the combination of the design of the track (a sharp near hairpin bend to start) and wetness on the track. The corner was difficult enough that even god-in-training Hamilton missed it on lap 2.

OwFanatik - 07 September 2008 04:27 AM

I don't think that the FIA officials are going to make much of a fuss about cars overshooting a corner or running slowly and off line (longer distance). With the number of tracks having paved run off areas, there is sadly some potential that the drivers will overdrive the runoff areas. However, for the most part, those runoff areas either end abruptly, require the drivers to go over some grass, or to go over significant curbs. In all cases, taking the runoff area is slower than taking the other route.

The start of today's race was particularly messy because of the combination of the design of the track (a sharp near hairpin bend to start) and wetness on the track. The corner was difficult enough that even god-in-training Hamilton missed it on lap 2.

I understand, and I agree that most areas do have the "speed bumps". However you bring up a good point. How is it fair that a driver on lap one decides not to break himself into losing a spot in tricky conditions and decides to use the runoff as part of the track, while on lap two a driver does brake and spins and loses said spot? Regardless of who the drivers are...

double post stupid me.

Fargate - 08 September 2008 07:50 AM

This is too a 25 second penalty thread!

Or an 11 months, 4 weeks, 2 days, 2 hours, 50 minutes ago thread...

Problem is, the cars that shot off into the run-off area actually reentered the track traveling FASTER than the cars that didn't go off. That shouldn't be! Drivers used to pay a price for going off course, now it seems they are rewarded. But, at the same time, it's some big deal to cut a stupid chicane that serves no purpose to begin with. Why the double standard? Either you're on the track or you're not.

I think I see the concerns of the OP.
And I also believe he's not trying to make this a 25 sec. thread too.

Andy,
It's a complicated thing, and I think the stewards look at it a bit like this: it's the start of the race, we can't apply the rules the same strict way because it's impossible to make all the necessary judgment calls. If you see how many different judgment calls get made when an incident only includes 2 cars, imagine a 20-car incident.
On normal laps you can, as a steward, rely a bit on telemetry. But at the start there simply isn't a reference to look at: they only start once a weekend

Every driver will argue "yes, I braked earlier/changed line several times, but only because the guy in front/to my left/on my rights forced me too/I anticipated worse things".. and so they all will have an excuse. It's simply a too complex issue to properly deal with it, therefore they let pass things they wouldn't let pass some laps later.

No driver will make a plan to purposely use the off-track pavin, since who can say that that will perhaps be the most dangerous part of the track, with cars sliding out of the turn? No one knows (hence the excitement of a start).

They all aim for the balance between not damaging the car/gaining some positions/not losing their position.

just my 2 cents..

Suffice it to say, that was one of the sloppiest start/first corners I've ever seen.

I think the important thing is that during the start of the race, most of the cars that run wide don't gain an advantage, which is key to the whole concept. Their penalty is to end up beind a force indian or a honda.

as a ferarri fan, even i saw how kimi used the wider arc of the run-off area to get keep his momentum going.
thus allowing him to run down and pass massa for second position.
but it could easily have ended his day as well.
so it's still something a top driver isn't going to attempt on purpose.

unfair advantage ??
who's to say.
at no time did his car hinder the line of another while he was getting back on the track.
massa seemed to not have a issue with it.
no penalty needed.

as for the end of the race.
hamilton used his momentum to his advantage, even though he let kimi around.
but i see where kimi had his line altered by hamilton as he was manuevering around after returning to the track.
kimi knew it was a chickencoop move.
that's why you saw him drive with an anger we've never seen before from him.

but as far as a penalty being handed down ???
that's a tough one to call.
lewis did what the letter of the rulebook says to do.
he relinquished his spot.
and if it wasn't a ron dennis team....... who knows.

as fans, we shouldn't be losing any sleep over this.
especially if you've been a fan of F-1 for a long time.
just enjoy the next race.
this is just another chapter in the political games played by the fia.

speedy_bob - 07 September 2008 10:56 PM

I think I see the concerns of the OP.
And I also believe he's not trying to make this a 25 sec. thread too.

Andy,
It's a complicated thing, and I think the stewards look at it a bit like this: it's the start of the race, we can't apply the rules the same strict way because it's impossible to make all the necessary judgment calls. If you see how many different judgment calls get made when an incident only includes 2 cars, imagine a 20-car incident.
On normal laps you can, as a steward, rely a bit on telemetry. But at the start there simply isn't a reference to look at: they only start once a weekend

Every driver will argue "yes, I braked earlier/changed line several times, but only because the guy in front/to my left/on my rights forced me too/I anticipated worse things".. and so they all will have an excuse. It's simply a too complex issue to properly deal with it, therefore they let pass things they wouldn't let pass some laps later.

No driver will make a plan to purposely use the off-track pavin, since who can say that that will perhaps be the most dangerous part of the track, with cars sliding out of the turn? No one knows (hence the excitement of a start).

They all aim for the balance between not damaging the car/gaining some positions/not losing their position.

just my 2 cents..

But didn't they choose to penalize Kova for hitting Heidfield, but ignore the fact that Bourdais clobbered Trulli forcing him into the path of the others?