ChrisR - 27 August 2008 12:00 AM

TURN8 - 26 August 2008 10:10 PM

Racing gearboxs are a special deal. For one thing, no syncros, and straight cut or nearly so gears. So Xtrac. Or could be Geartrag. The Lolas and DP01 used Hewland. Is Coloti still around?

Would that be Gehtrag, the German firm, you are suggesting?

Quite so, I knew I had spelled it wrong.

But close enough for someone to know what you meant !

TURN8 - 27 August 2008 09:46 PM

ChrisR - 27 August 2008 12:00 AM

TURN8 - 26 August 2008 10:10 PM

Racing gearboxs are a special deal. For one thing, no syncros, and straight cut or nearly so gears. So Xtrac. Or could be Geartrag. The Lolas and DP01 used Hewland. Is Coloti still around?

Would that be Gehtrag, the German firm, you are suggesting?

Quite so, I knew I had spelled it wrong.

Actually, you're both incorrect - it's Getrag - here's a link to their site - http://www.getrag.de/

Agreed that having the gearbox stick way the hell out the back of the car, behind the rear wheels, is insanity. Let's put something big, heavy, and completely inflexible in the part of the car that's most likely to hit something else big, heavy and completely inflexible (i.e. the outside wall on an oval). A transverse box ala CART in the late 90s (and maybe beyond, I'm not sure) would fit more neatly.

As for dual-clutch, VW/Audi and Porsche, among others, have started offering that setup in their passenger cars, but as noted, the gearbox and other running gear come with the car, not the engine. That doesn't preclude badge engineering of course, but gearboxes in general not likely to capture the road-car manufacturers' imagination the way engines do. After all, I would venture that to the average person (though less so for racing fans) the engine is the identity of the car.

Consider Mazda's fairly ridiculous "start with the best street cars and you'll end up with the best race cars" commercial. They prominently feature the B-K Motorsports Mazda-Lola from ALMS LMP2 as they say "more Mazdas are raced on any given Sunday than any other car." That car's as much a Mazda as my Volkswagen is a Mazda, and I don't remember the last time I saw a Lola street car, but to the idiot the commercial is aimed at, it's a Mazda because the engine's from Mazda. Of course, that's a stretch too (AER-developed engine). Let's just say it's a Mazda because the valve covers say Mazda.

The point (I know there's one in here somewhere) is that manufacturers, at least at this moment in time, are mainly interested in coming into the IRL either to develop or hire someone to develop engines. It's true, hopefully they're using it as a development exercise and not just a marketing tool, but whether or not they're developing anything, they know the engine is the easiest thing to make hay out of when it comes time to sell street cars. Honda (or Mazda, or anyone else) would probably feel better letting XTrac or Hewland worry about the gearbox since the guys that aren't on here talking about what gearbox they'd like the new Indy cars to have aren't likely to know the difference anyway.

Crap. You sure it isn't Gertrag??
MJJ237-Quite right also. Only the most obssessive of fans even know what gearbox is in the car.

mjj237 - 28 August 2008 10:46 PM

Consider Mazda's fairly ridiculous "start with the best street cars and you'll end up with the best race cars" commercial. They prominently feature the B-K Motorsports Mazda-Lola from ALMS LMP2 as they say "more Mazdas are raced on any given Sunday than any other car." That car's as much a Mazda as my Volkswagen is a Mazda, and I don't remember the last time I saw a Lola street car, but to the idiot the commercial is aimed at, it's a Mazda because the engine's from Mazda. Of course, that's a stretch too (AER-developed engine). Let's just say it's a Mazda because the valve covers say Mazda.quote]

Of course, the other 3/4 of the commercial is showing all the other thousands of Mazda's that are being raced each weekend such as the Miata and Rx7s, which are most definitely Mazdas and not Volkswagons.

AUTOMATIC any one?

bythebay - 28 August 2008 08:28 AM

TURN8 - 27 August 2008 09:46 PM

ChrisR - 27 August 2008 12:00 AM

TURN8 - 26 August 2008 10:10 PM

Racing gearboxs are a special deal. For one thing, no syncros, and straight cut or nearly so gears. So Xtrac. Or could be Geartrag. The Lolas and DP01 used Hewland. Is Coloti still around?

Would that be Gehtrag, the German firm, you are suggesting?

Quite so, I knew I had spelled it wrong.

Actually, you're both incorrect - it's Getrag - here's a link to their site - http://www.getrag.de/

Vielen Dank, meine gute Herr!

(Many thanks my good gentleman)

It's roots are in the German word for Transmission: Getriebe. pronounce the last e the same as you do in "Porsche". gay-treeb-a.

Getrag's a great company and makes an excellent box. I've rowed quite a few in Bimmers over the years.

It looks like I need to dust off my rusty German with Porsche hopefully coming to the summit. :-O

Regarding the new car.... yeah, it looks like we're going to be looking at a new tranny. I haven't heard much in that regard thus far however, so I can't give any insight.

mike fitzpatrick - 02 September 2008 07:23 PM

AUTOMATIC any one?

Well a dual clutch transmission could be used in a fully automatic mode. But what idiot would want that in a race car? I'm all for replacing the drivers with robots (or to a lesser extent, clones), but that's something of an all or nothing change.

mjj237 - 28 August 2008 10:46 PM

Agreed that having the gearbox stick way the hell out the back of the car, behind the rear wheels, is insanity. Let's put something big, heavy, and completely inflexible in the part of the car that's most likely to hit something else big, heavy and completely inflexible (i.e. the outside wall on an oval). A transverse box ala CART in the late 90s (and maybe beyond, I'm not sure) would fit more neatly.

As for dual-clutch, VW/Audi and Porsche, among others, have started offering that setup in their passenger cars, but as noted, the gearbox and other running gear come with the car, not the engine. That doesn't preclude badge engineering of course, but gearboxes in general not likely to capture the road-car manufacturers' imagination the way engines do. After all, I would venture that to the average person (though less so for racing fans) the engine is the identity of the car.

Consider Mazda's fairly ridiculous "start with the best street cars and you'll end up with the best race cars" commercial. They prominently feature the B-K Motorsports Mazda-Lola from ALMS LMP2 as they say "more Mazdas are raced on any given Sunday than any other car." That car's as much a Mazda as my Volkswagen is a Mazda, and I don't remember the last time I saw a Lola street car, but to the idiot the commercial is aimed at, it's a Mazda because the engine's from Mazda. Of course, that's a stretch too (AER-developed engine). Let's just say it's a Mazda because the valve covers say Mazda.

The point (I know there's one in here somewhere) is that manufacturers, at least at this moment in time, are mainly interested in coming into the IRL either to develop or hire someone to develop engines. It's true, hopefully they're using it as a development exercise and not just a marketing tool, but whether or not they're developing anything, they know the engine is the easiest thing to make hay out of when it comes time to sell street cars. Honda (or Mazda, or anyone else) would probably feel better letting XTrac or Hewland worry about the gearbox since the guys that aren't on here talking about what gearbox they'd like the new Indy cars to have aren't likely to know the difference anyway.

Uhm, seriously dude, you need to do a little study on IRL gearboxes and understand that in the LEAST... they are NOT 'big, heavy and completely inflexible. They are specially constructed to crush in an impact. It used to be that they were indeed 'hard' and some say that that is the reason for the initial back injuries attributed to IRL car crashes. Just go do some research before you make an all-inclusive statement like you did.