New Post
Hot Topic
New Poll
Moved Topic
Sticky Topic
No New Post
Old Hot Topic
Old Poll
Announcement
Closed Topic
Raised noses and low noses.
Veteran
Total Posts: 71
Joined
10lbs of extra boost pressure for those Mercedes engines, what a bonehead thing for Cart to do. Good thing Tony fixed that damn Cart rule, oh wait it was a USAC rule
Abnormal User
Total Posts: 3527
Joined
the extra 800cc of displacement were pretty sweet too...
Signature:
have a nice diurnal anomaly…
Abnormal User
Total Posts: 2904
Joined
There are some interesting concepts mention here in this thread.
The biggest reason for a high nose is to have a larger surface area of the front wings. The "main" plane of the front wings is a one piece item with secondary wings attached to it for adjustment of the downforce. The main plane is also adjustable in angle of attack, though it affects the entire wing.
On an oval car, is it more favorable to have separate main planes as the adjustments can be different side to side with the main planes. It is quite common on oval car to run one side in negative degrees and the other in positive angles.
As far as the nose having an effect on the underbody, it does effect it, but on such a same scale as to how much the front wings effect the underbody.
The choice of a high nose or a low one has more to do with the front wings than the underbody by a large margin.
The biggest reason for a high nose is to have a larger surface area of the front wings. The "main" plane of the front wings is a one piece item with secondary wings attached to it for adjustment of the downforce. The main plane is also adjustable in angle of attack, though it affects the entire wing.
On an oval car, is it more favorable to have separate main planes as the adjustments can be different side to side with the main planes. It is quite common on oval car to run one side in negative degrees and the other in positive angles.
As far as the nose having an effect on the underbody, it does effect it, but on such a same scale as to how much the front wings effect the underbody.
The choice of a high nose or a low one has more to do with the front wings than the underbody by a large margin.
Ultimate Insider
Total Posts: 936
Joined
I was thinking about the future of Indycars looking at pics of F1s and Indycars and I want to know what are the benefits of having a raised nose like in F1 and CC and also the benefits of having the Nose lower to the ground like the current car and the cars previously used in AOW.
The raised nose is useful for airflow under the car. This helps to optimize downforce for road and street circuits while the low nose is better to reduce drag and optimize top speeds on ovals. I personally think that the raised nose cars are nicer looking but the reality of the IRL being more ovals than not makes the raised nose less viable than the low nose.
right....but why did they raise the noses in f1? because they took away the tunnels and skirts and put a flat bottom on the car. whether it is a raised nose or slammed will depend entirely on the rules package.
Ultimate Insider
Total Posts: 936
Joined
The powerplants are sealed but I've heard some VERY low-volume grumbling that the powerplants that Penske and Ganassi get are a bit more on the tug than what AGR or Panther gets. This is reminiscent of the days when it seemed that Penske got the stronger springed pop-off valves. Is it happening? I don't know. All I can tell you is that I hope it isn't.
what i can tell you is that all of these engines arrive from honda crated for the teams. ALL of the engines are monitored by techs from honda to make sure that no tampering takes place.
they are essentially plug and play engines. if there are any developments performed the honda engineers appraise the team engineers of what to expect and that is all of the input they get.
what i can tell you is that all of these engines arrive from honda crated for the teams. ALL of the engines are monitored by techs from honda to make sure that no tampering takes place.
they are essentially plug and play engines. if there are any developments performed the honda engineers appraise the team engineers of what to expect and that is all of the input they get.
Ultimate Insider
Total Posts: 747
Joined
I was thinking about the future of Indycars looking at pics of F1s and Indycars and I want to know what are the benefits of having a raised nose like in F1 and CC and also the benefits of having the Nose lower to the ground like the current car and the cars previously used in AOW.
The raised nose is useful for airflow under the car. This helps to optimize downforce for road and street circuits while the low nose is better to reduce drag and optimize top speeds on ovals. I personally think that the raised nose cars are nicer looking but the reality of the IRL being more ovals than not makes the raised nose less viable than the low nose.
right....but why did they raise the noses in f1? because they took away the tunnels and skirts and put a flat bottom on the car. whether it is a raised nose or slammed will depend entirely on the rules package.
Well F1 took away ground effects in 1979, and raised noses didn't come in until 1994 so there's not much of a connection between the two.
And a race car doesn't need ground effects to make downforce from the undertray (but it helps).
Signature:
sorry no politics
Abnormal User
Total Posts: 2904
Joined
I was thinking about the future of Indycars looking at pics of F1s and Indycars and I want to know what are the benefits of having a raised nose like in F1 and CC and also the benefits of having the Nose lower to the ground like the current car and the cars previously used in AOW.
The raised nose is useful for airflow under the car. This helps to optimize downforce for road and street circuits while the low nose is better to reduce drag and optimize top speeds on ovals. I personally think that the raised nose cars are nicer looking but the reality of the IRL being more ovals than not makes the raised nose less viable than the low nose.
right....but why did they raise the noses in f1? because they took away the tunnels and skirts and put a flat bottom on the car. whether it is a raised nose or slammed will depend entirely on the rules package.
Well F1 took away ground effects in 1979, and raised noses didn't come in until 1994 so there's not much of a connection between the two.
And a race car doesn't need ground effects to make downforce from the undertray (but it helps).
??? How does a flat bottom floor create downforce??
Ultimate Insider
Total Posts: 747
Joined
The Bernoulli Effect: Air traveling under the car moves faster than air traveling over the car.
And a diffuser would certianly help.
And a diffuser would certianly help.
Signature:
sorry no politics
Ultimate Insider
Total Posts: 936
Joined
some of the best of both worlds cars were the lolas and penskes from 1989 to 1994. the best of those in my opinion would have been the 92 lola chassis. a superb blend of the 2 disciplines.
Ultimate Insider
Total Posts: 936
Joined
I was thinking about the future of Indycars looking at pics of F1s and Indycars and I want to know what are the benefits of having a raised nose like in F1 and CC and also the benefits of having the Nose lower to the ground like the current car and the cars previously used in AOW.
The raised nose is useful for airflow under the car. This helps to optimize downforce for road and street circuits while the low nose is better to reduce drag and optimize top speeds on ovals. I personally think that the raised nose cars are nicer looking but the reality of the IRL being more ovals than not makes the raised nose less viable than the low nose.
right....but why did they raise the noses in f1? because they took away the tunnels and skirts and put a flat bottom on the car. whether it is a raised nose or slammed will depend entirely on the rules package.
Well F1 took away ground effects in 1979, and raised noses didn't come in until 1994 so there's not much of a connection between the two.
And a race car doesn't need ground effects to make downforce from the undertray (but it helps).
they did not take away ground effects per say. they just took the sealing skirts away in 79 and made them go to the flat bottoms in 91-92. the next year.....the raised noses started showing up. so it DOES matter. the rules packages dictate how that nose will profile.
