http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-bmw-mechanic-suffers-kers-shock/

Sounds like they still have a lot of work to do to make this type of system work for next year.

Does anyone know just how this system works?
Is there an electromagnet in the wheel hub or something so that when the driver hits the brakes it revs it up or???

jay___j - 22 July 2008 10:13 AM

http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-bmw-mechanic-suffers-kers-shock/

Sounds like they still have a lot of work to do to make this type of system work for next year.

Does anyone know just how this system works?
Is there an electromagnet in the wheel hub or something so that when the driver hits the brakes it revs it up or???

From what I understand, there are two basic types of Kinnetic Energy Recovery (KERS) systems that may be used in Formula One.

One is a mechanical system that depends on a flywheel. There is information on how it works in the Flywheel Storage to finally make a return to racing thread, here:

http://www.speedtv.com/forums/viewthread/252061/

The other would be something like a hybrid system used in the Toyota Prius (a full parallel system) or more likely the "Series Hybred" system in Hondas. That system replaces the conventional flywheel with what is essentially a generator. Electricity is generated when the magnets in the generator are activated, thus generating an electric current that is then stored in a battery or a series of capacitors.



Fig. 1 Parallel hybrid engine/generator (Toyota Prius)

Fig. 2 Series hybrid engine/generator (Honda, GM, etc.)




I'm just guessing at this, but I think the BMW KERS system is the electric sort. This would mean that, if the generator had charged the battery or the capacitors, it had considerable electric energy in it. One careless wrench or screw driver across the terminals would cause a strong jolt, a spark or both. Not good.

Push to Pass? A lot of road car technology comes from F1 but this system seems hazardous. Arsenic as a battery by-product and with shock hazards it sounds like a big issue during a fuel mishap. I hope the FIA wait until this system is proven before ruining a season by implementing it too fast.

TeamRMP - 24 July 2008 07:13 PM

Push to Pass? A lot of road car technology comes from F1 but this system seems hazardous. Arsenic as a battery by-product and with shock hazards it sounds like a big issue during a fuel mishap. I hope the FIA wait until this system is proven before ruining a season by implementing it too fast.

You say Arsenic is a battery byproduct? That's interesting; I thought most high-density batteries were Nickle-metal hydride (NiMH) or Lithium Ion (L-I) types. The use of arsenic in electronic componenets that I know of is in Gallium-Arsenide semi-conductors. If you have a link to an article about arsenic as a battery component or byproduct, I'd be interested in seeing it.

Thanks,

-- GW74 --

I think there is still some time to get that kind of things Figure it out.
I'm with you about the Safety. Aspark in a refuelling pit stop could be a disaster but. If by the end of the year it is not safe, then they should pull it out for 2010.

Heres the video of the mechanic getting shocked...throws him on the ground!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzaQ-t1ojPU&fmt=18

I hadn't seen that video yet. Very interesting. Carbon Fiber isn't conductive is it? Would KERS jus develope more of a static charge than the cars do now? I haven't really taken notice nowadays, but do the mechanics traditionally only touch the tires until the car is grounded to prevent a difference of potential?

I would think that the drivers and safety crews will have a keen interest in how these battery packs and capacitators will react in a crash. Shocks, short circuits and fuel fires seem like a definite possibility. High voltage, high amperage power sources, when mixed with liquid fuels, metal components and high speed crashes need to be well thought out. I hope everybody does their homework on this one.

Benjam83 - 09 August 2008 02:08 PM

I hadn't seen that video yet. Very interesting. Carbon Fiber isn't conductive is it? Would KERS jus develope more of a static charge than the cars do now? I haven't really taken notice nowadays, but do the mechanics traditionally only touch the tires until the car is grounded to prevent a difference of potential?

That was an interesting video tape. I noticed that the mechanic touched both the bodywork and the steering wheel when he got zapped. That leads me to the conclusion that something in the KERS system got against the bodywork with enough energy to electrify it. When the hapless mechanic touched both at the same time, he completed a short circuit and got zapped.

Is carbon fiber a conductor? It is, sort of; carbon will conduct electricity, but with considerably more resistance than a metal like copper or silver. Carbon is used in many low-power resistors, like those in radios and electronics. If you look inside some spark plug wires, you'll see they have carbon fiber cores, rather than metal wire. Thus it's possible that the carbon fiber tub and bodywork could conduct some current if the voltage was high enough. But it would have taken a lot of power to cause something like that.

I think the mechanic's reaction was as much surprise as anything else. He didn't expect a shock, so when he got one, he was startled. It's sort of like what happens if you drop a book in a quiet library -- everyone jumps and looks around.

GreyWolf74 - 09 August 2008 10:14 PM

Benjam83 - 09 August 2008 02:08 PM

I hadn't seen that video yet. Very interesting. Carbon Fiber isn't conductive is it? Would KERS jus develope more of a static charge than the cars do now? I haven't really taken notice nowadays, but do the mechanics traditionally only touch the tires until the car is grounded to prevent a difference of potential?

That was an interesting video tape. I noticed that the mechanic touched both the bodywork and the steering wheel when he got zapped. That leads me to the conclusion that something in the KERS system got against the bodywork with enough energy to electrify it. When the hapless mechanic touched both at the same time, he completed a short circuit and got zapped.

Is carbon fiber a conductor? It is, sort of; carbon will conduct electricity, but with considerably more resistance than a metal like copper or silver. Carbon is used in many low-power resistors, like those in radios and electronics. If you look inside some spark plug wires, you'll see they have carbon fiber cores, rather than metal wire. Thus it's possible that the carbon fiber tub and bodywork could conduct some current if the voltage was high enough. But it would have taken a lot of power to cause something like that.

I think the mechanic's reaction was as much surprise as anything else. He didn't expect a shock, so when he got one, he was startled. It's sort of like what happens if you drop a book in a quiet library -- everyone jumps and looks around.

Anything electrical that can touch carbon fiber can get to ground, and this with an epoxy resin on the outside of it. The body and the chassis still can conduct electricity and the only reason it isn't as efficent as the spark plug wires you mention, is because of the coating resins.
I think of the driver in an accident and the pent up energy from the KERs getting released into the chassis. What happens to the driver?

speedsense - 10 August 2008 12:33 AM

I think of the driver in an accident and the pent up energy from the KERs getting released into the chassis. What happens to the driver?

Looks like we're going to need non-conductive driver's suits!