Yarboroughfan - 05 July 2008 09:53 AM

jc4321 - 05 July 2008 09:46 AM

Surely, you don't want to through out politics when your talkin NASCAR. RCR was pretty awful in the stretch after Sr. passed. I've said it a million times that Robby had to give up one entire crew and 2 or 3 crew chiefs while at RCR to try to get the GOODWRENCH team on track. It is what it is and Robby has probably been the most successful owner/driver since Alan Kulwicki when you consider the big scheme of things.

He answers to no one (maybe to his detriment) but he is very successful and still look at the boss in the mirror ecah morning.

sorry, I thought we were talking about manufacturer vs. driver fans. I simply stated that people like underdogs. You said that Roush is a winning team and thus not an underdog, I countered with the fact that they are, percentage wise, at a significant disadvantage and thus so an underdog.

Hey no problem..I get a little fired up on all this stuff. I'm now learning that Hendrick is an underdog to Toyota. Everbody needs to learn that NASCAR is just a pimp looking for the next big spender!!

jc4321 - 05 July 2008 09:58 AM

Yarboroughfan - 05 July 2008 09:53 AM

jc4321 - 05 July 2008 09:46 AM

Surely, you don't want to through out politics when your talkin NASCAR. RCR was pretty awful in the stretch after Sr. passed. I've said it a million times that Robby had to give up one entire crew and 2 or 3 crew chiefs while at RCR to try to get the GOODWRENCH team on track. It is what it is and Robby has probably been the most successful owner/driver since Alan Kulwicki when you consider the big scheme of things.

He answers to no one (maybe to his detriment) but he is very successful and still look at the boss in the mirror ecah morning.

sorry, I thought we were talking about manufacturer vs. driver fans. I simply stated that people like underdogs. You said that Roush is a winning team and thus not an underdog, I countered with the fact that they are, percentage wise, at a significant disadvantage and thus so an underdog.

Hey no problem..I get a little fired up on all this stuff. I'm now learning that Hendrick is an underdog to Toyota. Everbody needs to learn that NASCAR is just a pimp looking for the next big spender!!

oh brother. here I thought you were serious. sorry I took the time.

Yarboroughfan - 05 July 2008 10:02 AM

jc4321 - 05 July 2008 09:58 AM

Yarboroughfan - 05 July 2008 09:53 AM

jc4321 - 05 July 2008 09:46 AM

Surely, you don't want to through out politics when your talkin NASCAR. RCR was pretty awful in the stretch after Sr. passed. I've said it a million times that Robby had to give up one entire crew and 2 or 3 crew chiefs while at RCR to try to get the GOODWRENCH team on track. It is what it is and Robby has probably been the most successful owner/driver since Alan Kulwicki when you consider the big scheme of things.

He answers to no one (maybe to his detriment) but he is very successful and still look at the boss in the mirror ecah morning.

sorry, I thought we were talking about manufacturer vs. driver fans. I simply stated that people like underdogs. You said that Roush is a winning team and thus not an underdog, I countered with the fact that they are, percentage wise, at a significant disadvantage and thus so an underdog.

Hey no problem..I get a little fired up on all this stuff. I'm now learning that Hendrick is an underdog to Toyota. Everbody needs to learn that NASCAR is just a pimp looking for the next big spender!!

oh brother. here I thought you were serious. sorry I took the time.

Who is not serious.. It goes in cycles..Everyone is up in arms cause Toyota is winning..Nobody said a word when it was Jeff, Jr. and Jimmie..am I wrong?

jc4321 - 05 July 2008 10:08 AM

Yarboroughfan - 05 July 2008 10:02 AM

jc4321 - 05 July 2008 09:58 AM

Yarboroughfan - 05 July 2008 09:53 AM

jc4321 - 05 July 2008 09:46 AM

Surely, you don't want to through out politics when your talkin NASCAR. RCR was pretty awful in the stretch after Sr. passed. I've said it a million times that Robby had to give up one entire crew and 2 or 3 crew chiefs while at RCR to try to get the GOODWRENCH team on track. It is what it is and Robby has probably been the most successful owner/driver since Alan Kulwicki when you consider the big scheme of things.

He answers to no one (maybe to his detriment) but he is very successful and still look at the boss in the mirror ecah morning.

sorry, I thought we were talking about manufacturer vs. driver fans. I simply stated that people like underdogs. You said that Roush is a winning team and thus not an underdog, I countered with the fact that they are, percentage wise, at a significant disadvantage and thus so an underdog.

Hey no problem..I get a little fired up on all this stuff. I'm now learning that Hendrick is an underdog to Toyota. Everbody needs to learn that NASCAR is just a pimp looking for the next big spender!!

oh brother. here I thought you were serious. sorry I took the time.

Who is not serious.. It goes in cycles..Everyone is up in arms cause Toyota is winning..Nobody said a word when it was Jeff, Jr. and Jimmie..am I wrong?

On here there was a perennial "Chevy dominance" thread. at least as much if not more than the now "Toyota Dominance" stuff.

jc4321 - 05 July 2008 10:08 AM

Yarboroughfan - 05 July 2008 10:02 AM

jc4321 - 05 July 2008 09:58 AM

Yarboroughfan - 05 July 2008 09:53 AM

jc4321 - 05 July 2008 09:46 AM

Surely, you don't want to through out politics when your talkin NASCAR. RCR was pretty awful in the stretch after Sr. passed. I've said it a million times that Robby had to give up one entire crew and 2 or 3 crew chiefs while at RCR to try to get the GOODWRENCH team on track. It is what it is and Robby has probably been the most successful owner/driver since Alan Kulwicki when you consider the big scheme of things.

He answers to no one (maybe to his detriment) but he is very successful and still look at the boss in the mirror ecah morning.

sorry, I thought we were talking about manufacturer vs. driver fans. I simply stated that people like underdogs. You said that Roush is a winning team and thus not an underdog, I countered with the fact that they are, percentage wise, at a significant disadvantage and thus so an underdog.

Hey no problem..I get a little fired up on all this stuff. I'm now learning that Hendrick is an underdog to Toyota. Everbody needs to learn that NASCAR is just a pimp looking for the next big spender!!

oh brother. here I thought you were serious. sorry I took the time.

Who is not serious.. It goes in cycles..Everyone is up in arms cause Toyota is winning..Nobody said a word when it was Jeff, Jr. and Jimmie..am I wrong?

I don't recall Jr in the equasion last season, but no. Everything was hunky dory when it was HMS winning half of all the races. Put a Toyota in VL and all of a sudden the sanctioning body is being paid off by Toyota.

your "pimp" comment was what I was referring to. If you think Toyota is paying NASCAR off to let them have an advantage, I'd have to disagree.

Most of the more recent fans won't understand the brand loyalty thing at all. Those of us that have been watching for a longer time remember when Ford was an underdog and then Chrysler. First Hudson and then Chevrolet dominated NASCAR in the 50's, by the 60's it was Chevy and then Chrysler. NASCAR NEVER banned a Chevy product, but they banned the Hemi (said it was anti competition) because Chevy(GM) complained. Ford was always a poor stepchild, and never garnered the wins and numbers on track that Chevy & GM did. At times in the 70's there were 30 GM products and the rest were Fords, NO Chrysler's. There were always fans rooting for their favorite driver, but in the 70's it began to change. Muscle Cars were emasculated by government fiat (no HP) and GM so dominated that the fans started gravitating to the drivers rather then the manufacturer. Now I see NO reason for being a fan of a brand because there is nothing left to root for. The parts are all race car specific and the brand is just a bunch of decals. I was loyal to Chevy and then GM (that's what I raced) until the 90's when the last of the stock parts left the cars and they became pure race cars. I don't even drive GM anymore, I own a BMW Z4 and a Chrysler 300 and a Dodge Ram1500 Quad Cab. I do have a Buick Reatta convertible, but I am about to sell it. I just don't see how anyone can watch NASCAR anymore and root for a manufacturer. Except for sponsoring the teams and lending some measure of technical support, they simply aren't involved in RACING in NASCAR. Watching ALMS brand loyalty makes sense to me because the cars are actual derivatives of their showroom brethren. They look very much like the one you can go buy. I have my favorite driver, and then a few that I favor, but none that I dislike. I can find good things about all of them and try not to get mad at them regardless of what they do. I understand they are human and therefore make mistakes. I just try to keep in mind that what they do is still pretty dangerous and they do it for the pure excitement of doing it. AA JMHO

Bill

I'm with TF20. I don't care if Tony rides a bike. He's my driver. I drive a Ford with 20 stickers all over it.

Although I am not too thrilled about having to potentially get a new login name after this year. And change most of my stickers.

--M

Yarboroughfan - 05 July 2008 10:20 AM

your "pimp" comment was what I was referring to. If you think Toyota is paying NASCAR off to let them have an advantage, I'd have to disagree.

Well that might not be the most user friendly term nowadays. But the most money has alway won in NASCAR. Good business, bribes..Call it whatever you want.

--Raymond Parks

-Karl Kiekhoefer

- The "Factories"

- Holman Moody

- Petty

- Jr. Johnson

- Rick Hendrick

--When Dodge first re-entered they sat on the pole at Daytona and had a nose job until they won their first race.

- Toyota

"The Golden Rule" "He who has the Gold make the rules"..Bobby Allison

"One hand washes the other, they both wash the face" ...

Anything else?

I'm was born and raised a GM fan, but the race team I worked on we used Fords, so that made me appreciate the Fords as well. Most of the drivers I liked initially when I first started watching NASCAR was because of what they drove. I'd see an Oldsmobile or a Chevy on the track and I'd root for that team/driver. My first few drivers that I really started cheering for was Harry Gant/Olds, and Earnhardt Sr/Chevy. In my youthful brain at the time, the goodguys were the GM teams and the badguys were the Ford teams(Earnhardt as a goodguy haha)

In the late 90's Ward Burton was my favorite driver and it killed me when BDR switched from GM to Dodge, but I continued to root for Ward. His Dodge helped allow him to win the Daytona 500.

NASCAR keeps saying the sport is about the drivers, well I just think that's a spin to justify their CoT, which is fine. However before my time, when I did start watching NASCAR, and up until just several years ago, the manufacture battles were heated and fans seemed more loyal to their favorite make.

It still strikes me as odd when I see a 20 sticker on an F150, or an 88 decal on anything but a GM. 20 years ago that wouldn't have happened. The majority of die hard Earnhardt fans wouldn't be driving Thunderbirds.

I have a few choice Ford Racing hats from my former life, but I will not wear them when I drive my Chevy truck. I also had a 22 sticker on one of my older Chevy trucks and when Ward switched to Dodge, the sticker came off, even though I remained steadfast loyal to Ward.

I find it interesting that many of the same fans that complain about the so-called NASCAR "spec" cars, that limit a teams chance at finding an advantage, are also some of the first ones to complain when a team does manage to find an advantage and run better then the rest. As far as Toyota in Cup, I only see one out of the whole bunch that has been able to spank the field on a regular basis, and even he has had some bad finishes lately. This is dominance by one make over all the others?