What kind of "special" allowances did NASCAR give Toyota this year. I find it hard to believe just because JGR uses Toyotas make that big of a difference from last year when the Toyota teams had a hard time just qualifing, and couldn't even come close to the speeds that chev, ford, and dodge were running. I think back when Ford had a hard time running against GM and Dodge, the next year Davey Allison in the Havoline 42 Ford couldn't be touched, this year reminds alot of that year camparing Davey with Kyle. I think that Nascar caved into Toyota's enormous money and made some special allowances...Just a thought.

tjgerm - 02 June 2008 03:03 PM

What kind of "special" allowances did NASCAR give Toyota this year. I find it hard to believe just because JGR uses Toyotas make that big of a difference from last year when the Toyota teams had a hard time just qualifing, and couldn't even come close to the speeds that chev, ford, and dodge were running. I think back when Ford had a hard time running against GM and Dodge, the next year Davey Allison in the Havoline 42 Ford couldn't be touched, this year reminds alot of that year camparing Davey with Kyle. I think that Nascar caved into Toyota's enormous money and made some special allowances...Just a thought.

First: Toytoa doesn't have any "special" allowances. JGR is winning, the rest of the Toyotas are struggling (except for Vickers)

Second: Davey Allison never drove the #42 and Dodge wasn't even in NASCAR at that time

Third: NASCAR hasn't caved....yet

My bad, Davey drove the 28>>>>> Ididn't say that Dodge ran back in the 80s and early 90s, the did run last year, and that is what I was refering to. Also, how do you know that NASCAR hasn't caved in, thay have in the past why not now when they are trying to market Nascar globaly. Do you have inside contact with the powers to be at Nascar?

Also can you explain the 30+ horsepower difference between Toyota and most other cars? Nascar let Toyota and the Toyota team engine builders do something different..and thats a fact...google all the articles and the tests that Nascar has performed..it's out there

Development. Teamwork. Communication. People ...

Do carry on with the black helicopter theories, though. Your thread might fare better on the general discussion board.

Chevy won 26 races last year and nobody seemed to care. What's the big deal about Toyota.

tjgerm - 02 June 2008 03:38 PM

Also can you explain the 30+ horsepower difference between Toyota and most other cars?

If there was a 30 HP difference, JGR would be undefeated....with the other Toyota teams right behind them.

A 30HP difference for Toyota isn't going to be that noticeable no matter what you think. These cars are making 800-900HP. you're talking about less then a 4% difference Since they are all running the same rear gear, the Hp isn't going to be SEEN unless the cars handle AT LEAST AS WELL as everyone else. THAT may make the difference we're seeing, Take into account the ability of Kyle Busch to out-drive practically all the others and then put him in a car that's as good and THEN 30HP makes a difference. 100Hp you can see on the track, 30 not so much, unless the other factors I mentioned were present. AA JMHO

Bill

My bad, Davey drove the 28>>>>>

He also drove for an entirely different team. The 42 is running for Chip Ganassi, which used to be SABCO. Allison drove for Yates at a time when they were easily one of the best teams on a week to week basis. More on that in a second.

Also, how do you know that NASCAR hasn't caved in

Because other teams have had superior engine programs in the past. When Dale Jarrett won his title with Yates, it was widely accepted that Yates motors were by far the class of the field, and that he probably had a significant horsepower advantage over the Chevys and Pontiacs of the period. Oddly, few people claimed there was a Ford conspiracy. And as others eluded to, Hendrick kinda dominated everything last year.

if you watched kyle busch in the all star race, even running on seven cylinders his car would make huge gains on the car in front of him in the corners, he would seriously close nearly 20feet on the car in front of him in the corner, I think we can all agree that is huge!!!! I heard John andretti on the radio say how a long time ago they tested restrictor plates at atlanta, with all that less power the lap speeds where only down a few tenths, its also not all about peak power rather where the motor is making the power and torque. what is to say that JGR's advantage is all motor?? TRD is supposed the be still suppling the motors, so I am wondering what the actual involvement JGR motor guys really have.

Well TJGERM, NASCAR hasn’t made any concessions to Toyota for this season. The talk of Toyota having 30 or 50 more HP than everyone else is just that talk. Some of the hype is from over zealous sports writers and some of it is from the other manufactures egging them on, trying to get a concession for their camp. Toyota is producing about the same peak HP numbers that they were producing last year. The main reason for the perceived Toyota dominance is the fact that during the off season Toyota did a lot of work engineering wise to understand where they needed to produce good power VS. peak power. It doesn’t really matter how much HP you can produce at 9000 RPM because the engine only stays at 9000 RPM for a shot time near the end of the straight. You would like to produce good HP numbers down in the 6500-7500 RPM range because that is where you spend most of the race which is from the center off in the turn. If you can produce good HP in that range you will be much faster, than a competitor who might be producing the same end of straight away numbers as you, but lower HP numbers in the 6500-7500 range.

Without getting specific because the teams don’t like that. All the manufactures are running in the range of 770 to 800 HP on the chassis dyno, occasionally someone will be a couple digits over 800. At any given time you can find a spread between the highest to the lowest car of 30 HP, but usually the spread is in the 8 to 15 HP range from best to worst with no single manufacture gaining an edge consistently. The sports writers and other manufactures key on the fact that Toyota might have had the best number, and that number was 30 HP greater than the worst car tested. What they don’t tell you is that the 88 car might have only been 3 HP off the Toyota number. Hell, at times this year the top five cars have all been within 7 HP of each other. Another thing to understand is that NASCAR does not Dyno cars after every race. They average about 10 tests a year unless they have a reason to take the chassis Dyno out more often.

Mark Conquest is the man to blame if you want to point the finger at the guy who came on board to explain Toyota’s issues to them. Toyota came to Cup with a very good plan and a good engineering staff, but to some extent they lacked practical knowledge. Remember prior to their entry into NASCAR Toyota was not in the game of designing high performance cast-iron, pushrod V8s. When JGR switched to Toyota, Mark was one of the first guys that the Toyota engineers called. He is the one who is most responsible for bring practical knowledge to TRD and helping them understand their power band issues. For many it’s hard to believe that one guy could be that important, but he has been. Toyota had all the right parts they just need a little catalyst to put the effort together. Even with Mark onboard Toyota is still not running away with the HP war, all he did was get them to use what they already had in the right place. Hoped that helped a bit, and please don’t believe everything you read.