http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2008/May/080513rn.htm
I dont ride GP bikes but neither does Ryder or JB and all i know is from what riders have to say SO what purpose "Ryder Notes" serves ? I recall what Roger Lee had to say about his GP ride and they didn't "set things up to let you take total liberties with the throttle but it would result in a very slow lap time as the electronics refused to allow any power to be transmitted to the rear tyre." (Ryder) . He actually had a surprising good race .
"So what about the urban myth of a rider getting to the apex, cracking the throttle wide open and letting the electronics sort everything out? " i think the GP riders know best about this and R L Hayden had a pretty good chance to see how TC works in MotoGP . If i remind correctly he was blown away of how easy(i think he actually said "wide open at the apex") it was to get on the throttle with the ZX-RR compared to his "street" bike (which need it some more "control" from the rider) . I know Ryder is most of the times (dead) wrong but what's up with JB ? All this chitchat and not even a clue about how the "modern" TC actually does what it does . He could just as easy ask me about it instead of JB .
After all the changes that took place in the last years is only natural to wonder if MotoGP will have the same faith as F1 , we can just wait and see .............guess im one of those miserablists
One tyre , one standard (adjustable) ECU ........and a bigger tank , why not ?! That would be a real RIDERS CHAMPIONSHIP . Its a good thing to actually know , at the end of a race , who/what won
By the way Lorenzo even said the GP bike is easyer to ride then his old 250 bike ( maybe he wasn't very serious but you get the idea ( im too lazy to look for the quote) .....he11, its obvious he adapted much, much, much faster to GPs then he did in his first 250 season . Electronics are a HUGE help its just strange that they are trying to attenuate/cover this........now
Yeah, I think JB contradicted himself a bit, in one breath he says it doesn't do much and in another he quoted Rossi as saying the first version was like cheating.
I have heard some say that the better the rider, the further the TC is turned down - but at the same time no one knows exactly how the other has his TC set-up, or how well it works brand to brand.
Hard to argue with a superstar like Rossi - BUT - his cheating medicine wasn't as strong as Stoner's cheating medicine last year. Seems everyone is cheating equally successfully this year.
Me, I am but an awed spectator of motorcycle racing, but I personally have no squawk about TC as long as everyone has an equal shot at it. If it makes for better competition and faster, safer bikes I am all for it.
Would it not be ironic if TC is banned from racing and becomes a technology that continues to improve on all street bikes -- ??
I think Ryder is spot on in that people are wrong when they think that TC is this panacea that makes things super easy for everyone. It is difficult to set up and it does take a lot of resources to get right. It is undoubtedly an advantage and undoubtedly makes things easier but it is not all some critics make it up to be.
As for TC in Moto GP I think it's a bit disingenuous to be complaining about how it should be a rider's championship. Moto GP is as much about the technology as it is the riders. If it were meant to be a rider's championship they would be riding a spec bike so it is totally up to the riders.
I think the answer is somewhere in between. The technology development aspect has to be balanced with the entertainment aspect in a reasonable and fair manner. I think a good compromise could be that TC would be allowed, but without wheel speed sensors. That would limit the teams to a somewhat more crude form of TC that would put more control in the hands of the riders. It would allow the teams to continue to experiment with other facets of the electronics so that they still get the technology development they crave.
Frustrating article! I too have always wondered, "how are they doing a wheelie on the cool down lap with wheelie control"... but all JB did was restate the question. He didn't answer it.
And with all the respect in the world for JB, he makes a blatantly stupid statement at the end. Yes, I know I am not a GP crew chief, but even an idiot like me knows that you can't say, "if TC were everything, the tire wouldn't matter..." That makes NO sense.
TC is just maximizing what you get out of the tire. If the rider can only ride to 98% of the available grip and the TC can get you to 99% fine... but the point is that if the available grip of one tire is more than the next, than the tire DOES make a difference. I don't know, maybe I read the quote wrong.
What I do know is that ESPN classic just showed Jerez 2003. And all I could think the whole time was, "oh my god, what happened to MotoGP?" Rossi actually walked away with the race, taking Biaggi by about 10 seconds, but it was amazing to watch.
Capirossi was on pole and lead early. But he wasn't just leading, he was spinning the tire and getting sideways out of a few corners on EVERY lap, with guys right behind him. He would drift a bit wide while smoking the tire, someone would creep inside him, then his tire would quickly hook up and squirt him back past.
Then Rossi is looking like a dirt-tracker on his las lap while celebrating. If anyone has video, please post it. It bikes didn't look nearly as advanced, but they sounded and looked great, and the riders were really able to show their stuff.
http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2008/May/080513rn.htm
I dont ride GP bikes but neither does Ryder or JB and all i know is from what riders have to say SO what purpose "Ryder Notes" serves ? I recall what Roger Lee had to say about his GP ride and they didn't "set things up to let you take total liberties with the throttle but it would result in a very slow lap time as the electronics refused to allow any power to be transmitted to the rear tyre." (Ryder) . He actually had a surprising good race .
"So what about the urban myth of a rider getting to the apex, cracking the throttle wide open and letting the electronics sort everything out? " i think the GP riders know best about this and R L Hayden had a pretty good chance to see how TC works in MotoGP . If i remind correctly he was blown away of how easy(i think he actually said "wide open at the apex") it was to get on the throttle with the ZX-RR compared to his "street" bike (which need it some more "control" from the rider) . I know Ryder is most of the times (dead) wrong but what's up with JB ? All this chitchat and not even a clue about how the "modern" TC actually does what it does . He could just as easy ask me about it instead of JB .
After all the changes that took place in the last years is only natural to wonder if MotoGP will have the same faith as F1 , we can just wait and see .............guess im one of those miserablists
One tyre , one standard (adjustable) ECU ........and a bigger tank , why not ?! That would be a real RIDERS CHAMPIONSHIP . Its a good thing to actually know , at the end of a race , who/what won
By the way Lorenzo even said the GP bike is easyer to ride then his old 250 bike ( maybe he wasn't very serious but you get the idea ( im too lazy to look for the quote) .....he11, its obvious he adapted much, much, much faster to GPs then he did in his first 250 season . Electronics are a HUGE help its just strange that they are trying to attenuate/cover this........now
Excellent points!
RR.. the answer to your first question is the rider has dash controls to switch to several presets of TC. Turn it off and wala.. Wheelie Machines. Ben Spies has also discussed this so they even have it in AMA. He recently adjusted his mid-race and then left Mladin behind afterwards. We are graduating from "Horse & Buggy" to "Automobile" technology in the sport. TC handles many previous rider control requirements while opening up rider attention to other race aspects they previously had little time to devote too. All in all the entire field is able to do more racing and less riding. IMO
And with all the respect in the world for JB, he makes a blatantly stupid statement at the end. Yes, I know I am not a GP crew chief, but even an idiot like me knows that you can't say, "if TC were everything, the tire wouldn't matter..." That makes NO sense.
You are reading it wrong. He's saying to all the people who are saying TC is the most important thing that they are wrong. Of course he knows that TC cannot increase the available grip from the tire. But there are people out there who are saying inane things like Stoner won because of traction control and those people are off the mark.
they had tc in 2003. the decline in the quality of racing in motogp is the switch to 800 cc. not enough power vs too much power. the 2003 season may have been the best year ever for motogp (not 500cc) racing.
but Stoner won exactly because of that TC (not just ), he ws struggling to keep a bike on track with just a few months before . This is the point of TC
RR was about the last comment of JB ......a really stupid comment . he seems almost angry in those quotes
but Stoner won exactly because of that TC (not just ), he ws struggling to keep a bike on track with just a few months before . This is the point of TC
RR was about the last comment of JB ......a really stupid comment . he seems almost angry in those quotes
Traction control or lack thereof is not what caused Stoner's crashes in 2006. Almost all of his crashes were him losing the front, the front wheel has nothing to do with traction control. No, the major reason that Stoner stopped crashing is that Bridgestone has a much better front tire that suited his riding style better.
but Stoner won exactly because of that TC (not just ), he ws struggling to keep a bike on track with just a few months before . This is the point of TC
RR was about the last comment of JB ......a really stupid comment . he seems almost angry in those quotes
Traction control or lack thereof is not what caused Stoner's crashes in 2006. Almost all of his crashes were him losing the front
That's a fact.
Also, it was mentioned that it would be odd if TC was banned from racing but continued to advance on street bikes - remember that this is the situation with ABS. No racing series allows it (to my knowledge) but it's commonplace on cars and slowly advancing on bikes. I equate TC with ABS - it you allow one, why not the other?
i don't remember all of Stoner crushes, there were so many .....You honestly think that all of them where losing the front and had nothing to do with TC ? Listening to the commentators saying al lthe time "he lost the front" or "he lost the back" sometimes makes me laugh . its not always easy to say all happening so fast , but they always assume something just one second after the crush . You can lose the back almost at the same time losing the front .....YES traction plays a big role . I still remember the 2006 race at Laguna and Stoner was (sliding) all over the track almost taking out Pedrosa at one time and eventually had his crush ..............
Michelins were not so bad in 2006 (were not bad at all ) to explain Stoners next year fortune
Most Stoner's crashes were the classic front tuck - whether it was the Michelins (he wasn't on the A list as far as I know), or the Ducati suited him better, or he grew out of it or some combination, who knows? He could have been trail braking too hard, it was his first year on carbon brakes and he wouldn't have been the first caught out.
I'll definitely agree that he crashed enough that it was hard to keep them straight.
Meanwhile, a Ducati insider says: "If the bike starts to move, Casey just keeps the throttle on and rides through it. The others let the throttle off."
but neither does Ryder or JB and all i know is from what riders have to say SO what purpose "Ryder Notes" serves ? I recall what Roger Lee had to say about his GP ride and they didn't "set things up to let you take total liberties with the throttle but it would result in a very slow lap time as the electronics refused to allow any power to be transmitted to the rear tyre." (Ryder) . He actually had a surprising good race . 
