perhaps you should reread Chris's original post or post 80 (especially the quoted area).

I don't think he is saying your opinion sucks, just that it isn't keeping the series in the EVERYDAY news.

I think everyone will agree that a new car and more engine manufacturers would be GREAT.

WalterRayIndyJr - 16 May 2008 10:31 AM

Rousers - 16 May 2008 10:24 AM

I'm not telling anyone they are wrong.

Off base perhaps.

The question is not "What do you think we should do to improve the series?"

The thread is asking how we can keep ourselves in the mainstream newsmedia.

No...the thread is asking "what suggestions would you make?" Doesnt ask anything about how to keep in mainstream media. My suggestion i'd make, is all about presentation, and competition. How can that be 'off base'. It isnt your duty to tell me my opinion sucks.

Well, please explain where I said your opinion sucks?

I would say that perhaps your not reading posts however, because I've stated repetedly in this thread that ideas were good ideas, although they were off subject.

Please take the time and read the following from the very first post that was posted under the title.

Obviously, the best thing to utilize is your strongest assetts, from a promotional point of view. Everyone already knows that you don't want to start by attempting to re-invent the wheel, but rather take your strongest publicity points and build from there.

You don't have to be in promotion to realize that at this moment the biggest publicity strong points are Danica, The Dancing Helio, Marco, Graham and the unification.

Again, these are your "Hot points" with the press. Bear in mind that it's the press we want to give stories to that will peak THEIR interest, because if we can't peak their interest, it won't get the publicity we're interested in. In other words, if you want to make headlines, we're not going to try to promote tire sizes, or turbos v/s non turbos, because AP or Reuters just isn't going to be interested one iota.

So, what ideas do you have that may benifit the series from a promotional standpoint?

Something new or building on one of the established.

Remember, think from the perspective of catching the attention the guy/gal at a Reuters or AP desk, not something that you may say to Robin Miller or Curt Cavin.

The PR that the media picks up on comes from companies. The medium is the message as a wise person once said.

I'm not just saying that there should be 2 or more engine companies in the series because it will do ANYTHING at all to the product on the track. That doesn't mean a thing to the product at all or how "we can improve the product". I am just talking in terms of the PR/media machine. In fact they can be the same engine re-badged for all the public knows.

You aren't going to get the sport in the mainstream newspapers and sports pages without the Auto companies and their PR machines. How many times have you watched the news and seen a report on a new BMW "Intelligent vehicle" that can drive itself. On F1 news sites the news is compiled and journos get quotes directly from team/manufacturer press releases.

Back in the old days of Honda/Toyota/Cosworth/Merc & Goodyear/Firestone, the pit lane would be crawling with execs and PR types talking up their teams cars and drivers. The corporate dollars behind this inter-company competition fuels the machine.

Rousers, you cannot separate the "sport" from its mechanical components, as racing above all is a big marketing exercise. They are essentially travelling billboards. When you think of it, the fact that they have commercial breaks during the all too commercial sport of watching high speed billboards race each other, its kind of ludicrous. Are we not being advertised to every time they pit their Honda powered car for a new set of Firestones and 100% fuel grade ethanol?

The media will take notice when the BIG bucks of the companies MAKES them take notice. Publicity stunts and big corporate dollars won't come in.

But that aside, why does everyone assume it has to be Ford or GM coming into Indycar. Why not a European or Asian car company looking to make inroads in the US, or who have looked at F1 in the past. Honda vs. Hyundai, Mazda, Nissan, VW or something. Mazda would be particularly interesting as it had a partnership with Champcar and Atlantics.


This is more of what I said before, but TG and Indycar are REALLY limited in what they can do about marketing the sport as a whole. You need those BIG corporate divisions so that PR is coming from many different competing angles and companies. Nascar markets itself through all its partner companies, manufacturers, etc. Nascar doesn't have to bankroll the expense, the companies are all too happy to do it for them.

Its a chain reaction, you're talking about it being in the news, but money and public relations makes the news happen. Its all advertising.


Without any big competitive corporate PR machines helping to fuel the fire, TG is fighting a steep uphill battle trying to do it all himself.

Great post Minardifan.

minardifan - 16 May 2008 11:35 AM

The PR that the media picks up on comes from companies. The medium is the message as a wise person once said.

I'm not just saying that there should be 2 or more engine companies in the series because it will do ANYTHING at all to the product on the track. That doesn't mean a thing to the product at all or how "we can improve the product". I am just talking in terms of the PR/media machine. In fact they can be the same engine re-badged for all the public knows.

You aren't going to get the sport in the mainstream newspapers and sports pages without the Auto companies and their PR machines. How many times have you watched the news and seen a report on a new BMW "Intelligent vehicle" that can drive itself. On F1 news sites the news is compiled and journos get quotes directly from team/manufacturer press releases.

Back in the old days of Honda/Toyota/Cosworth/Merc & Goodyear/Firestone, the pit lane would be crawling with execs and PR types talking up their teams cars and drivers. The corporate dollars behind this inter-company competition fuels the machine.

Rousers, you cannot separate the "sport" from its mechanical components, as racing above all is a big marketing exercise. They are essentially travelling billboards. When you think of it, the fact that they have commercial breaks during the all too commercial sport of watching high speed billboards race each other, its kind of ludicrous. Are we not being advertised to every time they pit their Honda powered car for a new set of Firestones and 100% fuel grade ethanol?

The media will take notice when the BIG bucks of the companies MAKES them take notice. Publicity stunts and big corporate dollars won't come in.

But that aside, why does everyone assume it has to be Ford or GM coming into Indycar. Why not a European or Asian car company looking to make inroads in the US, or who have looked at F1 in the past. Honda vs. Hyundai, Mazda, Nissan, VW or something. Mazda would be particularly interesting as it had a partnership with Champcar and Atlantics.


This is more of what I said before, but TG and Indycar are REALLY limited in what they can do about marketing the sport as a whole. You need those BIG corporate divisions so that PR is coming from many different competing angles and companies. Nascar markets itself through all its partner companies, manufacturers, etc. Nascar doesn't have to bankroll the expense, the companies are all too happy to do it for them.

Its a chain reaction, you're talking about it being in the news, but money and public relations makes the news happen. Its all advertising.


Without any big competitive corporate PR machines helping to fuel the fire, TG is fighting a steep uphill battle trying to do it all himself.

Actually, TG hasn't been doing virtually anything to take advantage of best opportunity around: Danica and Helio.

Danica and Helio have gotten more attention from the press than the entire series combined.

It dwarfs the amount of attention that the series had when Toyota, Honda, and Chevy were involved...plus, add Ford's involvement with CC during those years to the equasion and there is still no comparison.

No. I think Indy Car is leaving a lot on the table currently and not striking at all while the iron is hot.

It is an opportunity that is not being taken advantage of. IMHO.

Rousers - 16 May 2008 11:53 AM

No. I think Indy Car is leaving a lot on the table currently and not striking at all while the iron is hot.

It is an opportunity that is not being taken advantage of. IMHO.

So then what suggestions would you make?

I'd disagree with dancing with the stars mattering at all in terms of the sport. Even if they liked Helio, the markets for that show and for Indycar are mostly mutually exclusive. Primetime contrived trash TV doesn't really appeal to any of us here, I'm sure. It may help a bit, but its fleeting. Like every American idol...they have their one hit wonder and fade into the public unconscious. Attention spans are short and shows like Dancing are consumables, just as a bag of Doritos, or a night at the movies.

As for Danica, if I was a Honda exec, I'd have her face on every billboard. Thats what has to happen, as there is only so much tooting of your own horn that anyone is going to listen to. Instead of criticizing George (omg I'm defending Tony George, I can't believe I'm doing this), consider what he has to work with. He owns a B-rate sport with one top-tier event. Short of releasing press releases every day, what else can they do. What can TG do more to "capitalize on Danica and Helio"? What power does he have with the media. He can't even get ESPN to give them a dedicated time slot or channel to put the races on, let alone have it on sportscenter.

If half the grid were Honda's and half the grid were Mazdas (as an example), and Honda was milking Danica for all her image is worth, Mazda is going to ramp up its budget to promote its stable of drivers. You'll see whoever their top guy/girl is out in the media, appearing on talk shows, doing the rounds of late night and daytime tv, doing publicity stunts, the whole thing. On the COMPANY'S dime. Not the teams' dime or the IRL's dime.

I agree that Danica's win should have been a gold mine, but I also think that the overwhelming feeling of "FINALLY" and the fact that the media hyped her up so bad in Indy 2005 (She was going to be a sure winner that year, by the way they were talking her up she couldn't lose), that its not as big a story as it once was.
In fact, I'd even say that they used the Danica marketing ace too soon, before she was ready to win.


I guess, what you were thinking of this thread as is "what can TG do to make the media pay attention and get this sport in the news". And my answer is, GET THE SPORT IN ORDER! Get some manufacturers, big sponsors, work on TV contracts, and LEAVE THE MARKETING TO THE PROFESSIONALS.

There is nothing Tony can do to effectively market the series himself. He is but a blip on the media radar. How much do you think ABC/ESPN or any other network are going to pay attention to wee little TG from IMS, when they have Dodge, Toyota, Chevy and Ford advertising like crazy on their networks, and all TG has is an overextended Honda one-make series. If LOTS of advertisers come up to a TV exec and say, hey, if you'd give a bit more coverage to our Indycar program, we just may buy some ads on some of your other networks. Look at all the Kia/Hyundai $$ around, and all the Zoom Zoom ads on network TV. If those guys are paying attention to Indycar, the media will FOLLOW THE MONEY.

minardifan - 16 May 2008 11:35 AM

The PR that the media picks up on comes from companies. The medium is the message as a wise person once said.

I'm not just saying that there should be 2 or more engine companies in the series because it will do ANYTHING at all to the product on the track. That doesn't mean a thing to the product at all or how "we can improve the product". I am just talking in terms of the PR/media machine. In fact they can be the same engine re-badged for all the public knows.

You aren't going to get the sport in the mainstream newspapers and sports pages without the Auto companies and their PR machines. How many times have you watched the news and seen a report on a new BMW "Intelligent vehicle" that can drive itself. On F1 news sites the news is compiled and journos get quotes directly from team/manufacturer press releases.

Back in the old days of Honda/Toyota/Cosworth/Merc & Goodyear/Firestone, the pit lane would be crawling with execs and PR types talking up their teams cars and drivers. The corporate dollars behind this inter-company competition fuels the machine.

Rousers, you cannot separate the "sport" from its mechanical components, as racing above all is a big marketing exercise. They are essentially travelling billboards. When you think of it, the fact that they have commercial breaks during the all too commercial sport of watching high speed billboards race each other, its kind of ludicrous. Are we not being advertised to every time they pit their Honda powered car for a new set of Firestones and 100% fuel grade ethanol?

The media will take notice when the BIG bucks of the companies MAKES them take notice. Publicity stunts and big corporate dollars won't come in.

But that aside, why does everyone assume it has to be Ford or GM coming into Indycar. Why not a European or Asian car company looking to make inroads in the US, or who have looked at F1 in the past. Honda vs. Hyundai, Mazda, Nissan, VW or something. Mazda would be particularly interesting as it had a partnership with Champcar and Atlantics.


This is more of what I said before, but TG and Indycar are REALLY limited in what they can do about marketing the sport as a whole. You need those BIG corporate divisions so that PR is coming from many different competing angles and companies. Nascar markets itself through all its partner companies, manufacturers, etc. Nascar doesn't have to bankroll the expense, the companies are all too happy to do it for them.

Its a chain reaction, you're talking about it being in the news, but money and public relations makes the news happen. Its all advertising.


Without any big competitive corporate PR machines helping to fuel the fire, TG is fighting a steep uphill battle trying to do it all himself.

That is a great post.

The problem is they aren't waiting in line to jump on board. Maybe they will next year, maybe they won't. That isn't something that the SERIES can do to help itself.

Exactly. There isn't anyone we know of. And that should be of the gravest concern.

Indycar needs to find friends in high places. Big companies with big influence and big advertising budgets that will make the networks take notice. TG has to sell the product and the potential to them before it can be shown to the fans. The fans can only come watch what they are exposed to.

Thats job #1. I really hope that's whats going on behind the scenes right now, as I wouldn't waste my time as the IRL trying to market one particular driver or another or going on some big advertising/marketing blitz. Get the structure in there that will make it self sustaining. Trying to promote the sport on a micro level, driver by driver, team by team, sponsor by sponsor isn't only extremely difficult and expensive, its simply putting the carriage before the horse.

It will be MUCH easier when there are enough parties with a vested interest in the series continued growth and success. When each have a desire to enhance their own profiles within the series, then the marketing machine will drive itself, and TG will be left to be a Bill France and just manage the overall rules of play to try and ensure a competitive balance (something he failed to do when Chevy and Toyota were less competitive than Honda and it ultimately resulted in their departure).

Lets hope these talks are going on in locked boardrooms somewhere as that is what needs to happen.

Like the Grand Am format that brought in several engine makers and several chassis builders, I'd like to see the IRL come up with a spec tub, allow Dallara, Panoz and others to develop their own bodywork, and allow either a V6 turbo or V8 NA engine, built within certain parameters. That way, you would see a multitude of engine / chassis combinations, ( Dallara/Honda, Panoz/Cosworth, Riley/Mazda, Reynard/Porsche, etc.). Some combinations would no doubt be better on ovals, some better on road courses, some better on streets. This would constantly shuffle the deck and also allow more manufacturers to get involved on a limited basis.