parmalat - 12 May 2008 06:13 PM

wer56 - 12 May 2008 05:43 PM

sort of curious he never has a good start when lewis is behind him.

Um...yeah...because like you say every single time Heikki qualifies in front of Lewis in the long history of their pairing together at McLaren, each and every time, 100% of the time, without fail, it always happens...Heikki get's a worse start than Lewis. This situation has been going on too long, it's obvious from my time consuming examination of the countless number of races that Heikki has outqualified Lewis over their long and storied tenure together that there can be no other explanation than team orders from McLaren for him to move out of the way. I vaguely remember the first time it happened (though forgive me if I can't remember exactly when as the memories have faded over time) thinking that something curious was going on myself. If only I had been as boldly analytical as some others in this forum, this illegal activity by McLaren could have been stopped before it tainted the record books for all this time that it has been going on.

I think some might be going overboard with this idea. Im sure Heikki was trying as hard as he could on the start. Remember he was 5 laps heavier than Hamilton and on the dirty line. If you look at the start the only driver to get a good launch off the dirty line was Kimi and he was on soft tires which always helps a lot on starts.

I don't know if Heikki is a really good supporting driver , but all i have to say about this is : " show me a good supporting driver , and i'll show a good loser "

Travis1972 - 12 May 2008 12:15 PM

I'm a Ferrari fan that likes what he sees in Heikki too, but I did not like his...(Let's run people off the road) driving this weekend. If Kimi would not have slammed on the brakes in turn 1 they might have both been out of the race. Forcing the issue is one thing...turning in on someone that has position is another.

He ruined Kimi's race a little bit and his own quite badly. (Although I think Ferrari on a different tire strategy for Kimi would have left him with something for Lewis at the end.) Then he's coming through the field in his mighty McLaren and passes and gets re-passed by 3 different drivers in mid-pack cars. That was very exciting to watch, but I'm sure Mr. Dennis was going..."Come on Heikki, you should be leaving these guys in the dust!"

I like Heikki, but this weekend he seemed to be on a path of destruction. If it were not for cooler heads backing off...he would have been out of the race at least on 3 different occasions.

Like Kimi said in the post race interview, "It didn't really help either of us."

Still it was a very exciting race to watch and I'm not sure Heikki moved out of the way for Lewis. I think the problem was being on the dirty side of the track.

Very glad to see Heikki back so soon from his crash, though...for a while in Spain I was really worried that we had lost him! I think we all were worried.

Yeah, that is a good point.

rainmaster - 12 May 2008 07:23 PM

I don't know if Heikki is a really good supporting driver , but all i have to say about this is : " show me a good supporting driver , and i'll show a good loser "

Are you calling Sir Stirling Moss a loser ?

Kovi turned in early for the first turn in attempt to keep the charging Kimi (who got a better start than Kovi did) behind him. In doing so slowed himself down and cut his tire on the backing off Ferrari.
Simply just bad luck for Kovi. He wasn't letting Hamilton by, he was defending his position. For pete's sake, Kovi had
A)a WDC behind him
B)a Ferrari behind him
C) Kimi R. with far more starts in F1 than him....

If teams orders are in place, the start of the race is not the place to move over and let your team mate pass you, especially when two cars from the same team are already splitting the two cars from the other team at the sharp end of the stick. Too much chaos to content with on the start and not a wise move at all, lest you might let the wrong guy by....

Watch it again, if you can, and you'll see he's trying everything possible to keep Kimi behind him...

juiceCake - 12 May 2008 05:16 PM

McLaren said Heikki would have come in 2 laps after Massa. Since Hamilton pitted on 16 and Massa on 18, Heikki, according to McLaren, would've have pitted, therefore, on 20. Furthermore, Hamilton said he qualified on less fuel than Heikki did he not?

Heikki didn't move out of the way. He just didn't have as good a start. Happens every race, drivers having good, fair, or bad starts. I'd be surprised if the Speed crew doesn't realize this, but at the same time, I really wouldn't care if they didn't.

Thanks for the explanation. I usually watch the race with the volume off so I don't have to hear the likes of Hobbs and Windsor (that's my own fobia. I know they are just charming. Now I am really puzzled! Are you telling me that Heiki is that much faster than Lewis?
Let's see, 4 laps is about 10 liters of fuel or 20 pounds of extra weight. That translates into 2 tenths, approx, per lap. And still Heiki outqualified Lewis?
Mi no comprender. I thought Lewis was the fastest driver on Earth according to some of the past comments from the Speed TV crew!.

Hondanisti - 13 May 2008 03:24 AM

rainmaster - 12 May 2008 07:23 PM

I don't know if Heikki is a really good supporting driver , but all i have to say about this is : " show me a good supporting driver , and i'll show a good loser "

Are you calling Sir Stirling Moss a loser ?

Was he a "good supporting driver"?

juaninamillion - 13 May 2008 10:22 AM

juiceCake - 12 May 2008 05:16 PM

McLaren said Heikki would have come in 2 laps after Massa. Since Hamilton pitted on 16 and Massa on 18, Heikki, according to McLaren, would've have pitted, therefore, on 20. Furthermore, Hamilton said he qualified on less fuel than Heikki did he not?

Heikki didn't move out of the way. He just didn't have as good a start. Happens every race, drivers having good, fair, or bad starts. I'd be surprised if the Speed crew doesn't realize this, but at the same time, I really wouldn't care if they didn't.

Thanks for the explanation. I usually watch the race with the volume off so I don't have to hear the likes of Hobbs and Windsor (that's my own fobia. I know they are just charming. Now I am really puzzled! Are you telling me that Heiki is that much faster than Lewis?
Let's see, 4 laps is about 10 liters of fuel or 20 pounds of extra weight. That translates into 2 tenths, approx, per lap. And still Heiki outqualified Lewis?
Mi no comprender. I thought Lewis was the fastest driver on Earth according to some of the past comments from the Speed TV crew!.

None of the are the fastest on Earth. What we have is a great group of drivers who can outperform each other on any given day mixed in with some not so great drivers. We get it, Speed likes Hamilton and you're making fun of them for it. We get that you don't agree with the Speed team and if you did, it says that Heikki is a great driver too.

Can we get over hamilton critique for just one race, He has talent.... alittle more then some in the field. They aren't talking about him nearly as much as they did in his exceptional rookie season. I don't believe heikki let him by at all, merley a clean/light strat vs. a dirty/heavy start with a bit of defense on the #23 cars part. It is hard to fault hamilton after his performance and inretrospect i think it was very sad the other mclaren wasn't dicing for a podium with him. I hear alot of positives from mclaren about heikki and they have praised him alot for being a exceptional person on and off the track if you can deter your mind from lewis for just a moment.


Also insulting the speed crew is ubsurd, they do a great job and you really aren't gonna find anything better so live with what you have and be grateful. Don't take for granted a great pairing. We know you don't wanna hear about all the drivers just the ones you like but your brain should be able to put up with hearing something about a rival driver you dislike.

Alternatively i don't know who commented about heikki running people off the road but c'mon get real he passed alot of cars and through multiple corners side by side and there was not a single piece of contact. It looks easy on tv but i assure you in the cockpit it is extremely difficult with the cars so highly competitive.

Respect wht you are watching sometimes.... Granted a bonehead dc or hamilton mounting appear ridiculous and i understand that banter but to pick apart uncircumstantial race behavior/incidents is pathetic.

MP4-22 - 13 May 2008 11:06 AM

Can we get over hamilton critique for just one race, He has talent.... alittle more then some in the field. They aren't talking about him nearly as much as they did in his exceptional rookie season. I don't believe heikki let him by at all, merley a clean/light strat vs. a dirty/heavy start with a bit of defense on the #23 cars part. It is hard to fault hamilton after his performance and inretrospect i think it was very sad the other mclaren wasn't dicing for a podium with him. I hear alot of positives from mclaren about heikki and they have praised him alot for being a exceptional person on and off the track if you can deter your mind from lewis for just a moment.


Also insulting the speed crew is ubsurd, they do a great job and you really aren't gonna find anything better so live with what you have and be grateful. Don't take for granted a great pairing. We know you don't wanna hear about all the drivers just the ones you like but your brain should be able to put up with hearing something about a rival driver you dislike.

Alternatively i don't know who commented about heikki running people off the road but c'mon get real he passed alot of cars and through multiple corners side by side and there was not a single piece of contact. It looks easy on tv but i assure you in the cockpit it is extremely difficult with the cars so highly competitive.

Respect wht you are watching sometimes.... Granted a bonehead dc or hamilton mounting appear ridiculous and i understand that banter but to pick apart uncircumstantial race behavior/incidents is pathetic.

That is well put. Just to clear things up, I don't dislike any drivers in the F1 circuit. I have learned to put aside my own fobia, as explained before, about the Speed crew, that's why I watch the races with the volume off (a shame because I like to hear the cars wizzing by) rather than putting up with the subjetivity of some crew members. I am grateful that I can follow F1 in the speed channel since I had been disconnected from it for many years after I came to live in the US. So I'm grateful for that.
For obvious reasons, since I'm from Asturias originally, my favorite driver is FA and, believe me, I here everything I need about him and from him directly in my shortwave radio and radio stations on the net from my country of origin.
I might have made some comments about Lewis jumping on Alonso's back or pressing the wrong button. But most likely were due to comments from others (you among them)that implied as a put down that Alonso did not finish among the first 7 cars in Barna when he is driving a toilette with wheels. (it'll get better) I think that Schumacher had an impasse of 4 years between his first 2 WDCs and the last 5.
Other than that, I'm cool with your view of things.