what annoyes me is when they make Fernando into Fred - lewis into luis - and theres someone else they change too - why, why would you do that? it's not funny, it's not right, it's just plain dumb.
I think they should all adopt the NASCAR model and refer to the car number, not the driver name. Thus we could forget about trying to pronouce the R word, or any silly nicknames or shortforms (like the Kimster) and refer to him as the #1. Heck the cars drive themselves anyway, why not give the machine the respect it deserves. Only problem I see is that F1 awards the numbers based on driver points from the previous year (how silly is that?), so the Ferrari's are not always the #1 and #2, just most of the time. Personally I think the Ferrari's look better as the #27 and #28 for historical reasons anyway.
Rubens has a particularly tough name for my American tongue, but I get as close as I can.
The OP says he heard it as "Bon-i-kello" but the way I hear you is more like "Buy- a-kello" which would seem correct to me, the 2 r's become Y. Funny that I've heard you pronounce it that way and the next second Steve or David will not, has anybody ever asked Rubens I wonder ?
Of course it matters that the names are correctly said.
Think about seeing your name constantly written wrong or hearing it said constantly wrong. Would you not get annoyed? I certainly would.
I got into our local newspaper a couple of years ago - no not the crime section, but the finance section. The "journalist" wrote my name as I recall, three times into the article, each time differently and each time wrong. it's almost needless to say that my appreciation towards the so-called "journalists" went down quite a lot. Yeah, this is one occasion only. But if they don't get even the name right then aren't there going to be a lot of other mistakes too on their articles? Because the name is easy to get written right.
Of course we give slack to foreigners when it comes to saying our names. Our names are not their language so they are likely not going to be able to say it right. But not even trying, or as admitted by the BobVarsha in this very same thread, knowing how it should be said and can say it so, but still saying it the wrong way, is horrible.
It's these "small" things which in the end make the difference between the good and the bad, the pro and the amateur.
But as I said, of course we give slack to foreigners when it comes to saying our names... for example, a lot of Finnish names are directly meaningful words of our language. You need to know our language to be able to say most of our names correctly. Some names are more easy because they are common in many languages and not said much differently. But anyways, I am certainly not expecting that people whom's native language is English, could say my real name right. It's the "not even trying" or "knowing how it should be done and being able to do it right, but still doing it wrong" which is irritating.
I have a particularly difficult spanish name, and I am an expat living and working multi-nationally. I could not care less how they pronounce my name, even at the highest levels. I am usually good with pronouncing foreign names, but there are a few that I cannot pronounce correctly with any consistency. Take a french guy named "Vincent"... saying it with engligh pronunciation is very different from its french pronunciation (something close to "vanzant", but for the life of me I cannot say it the same 5 times in a row... and I'm a pretty good linguist, too.
Now, if they would call someone a different name each time, because they forget the name or something like that, then that really is a lack of respect. SImply not pronouncing correctly is not a big deal.
Writing it wrong is different though... what you describe is just sloppy journalism and even worse editing.
One more thing that maybe you guys don't realize: Barrichello is an italian name, not brazilian/portuguese, so here you have english speakers trying to replicate the portuguese pronunciation of an italian name, when an italian would cringe at hearing the portuguese version. Too funny.
Personally I think it's just ignorance, an element of rudeness & frankly plain ole laziness Sports TV commentators are mentioning these names week in week out, heck all it would take is to get confirmation as to the correct pronounciation the first time a new driver is wheeled out & bobs your uncle.. or at least it should be, I mean its their jobs to recall an element of frequently changing facts & info about racing stuff, so how hard is it to remember the correct name of a driver who by an large stays around for years?
*Interesting how Brasilian driver Helio Castro Neves seldom had issues with his name when he raced in Europe, yet as soon as he crossed the Atlantic he was forever having to correct people, & eventually ended up having to alter his surname to help those poor saps who struggled with the concept of a double barreled surname
The OP says he heard it as "Bon-i-kello" but the way I hear you is more like "Buy- a-kello" which would seem correct to me, the 2 r's become Y. Funny that I've heard you pronounce it that way and the next second Steve or David will not, has anybody ever asked Rubens I wonder ?
The couple of times I've met him he responded to Rubens just fine. Besides, there's nobody to confuse him with.
I was going to ask "did you look at the first page of this topic?" but now I'm thinking it should be posted on every page as far as the topic goes. Cheers!
Rubens has a particularly tough name for my American tongue, but I get as close as I can.
The OP says he heard it as "Bon-i-kello" but the way I hear you is more like "Buy- a-kello" which would seem correct to me, the 2 r's become Y.
Bob has a very common American speech impediment, an inability to naturally roll r's. Lots of other European languages (even English!) have a rolled 'r' somewhere in their vocabulary, we really don't. It ain't his fault anymore than if we were to chide an Asian about his r's. It just ain't nice.
I had mine beat into me by a German mother and French father (well, let's just say "enthusiastically encouraged" ; >) and all of the language instructors from my youth. It ain't natch'r'll for an American palate, and I'd rather see Bob spared the hassle of learning a new linguistic skill. He sacrifices enough sleep for us as it is...
OTOH, I do have bit of a cringe every time he speaks of the skoodahdeeya Ferarri! ; >
Just funnin' ya, Bob. Keep up the good work!
Oh, my girlfriend, and all the others in the 'Verstoppen Four-Stoppers', can't wait til someone makes the 'between a Glock and a hard place' reference... ; >
Of course it matters that the names are correctly said.
Think about seeing your name constantly written wrong or hearing it said constantly wrong. Would you not get annoyed? I certainly would.
I got into our local newspaper a couple of years ago - no not the crime section, but the finance section. The "journalist" wrote my name as I recall, three times into the article, each time differently and each time wrong. it's almost needless to say that my appreciation towards the so-called "journalists" went down quite a lot. Yeah, this is one occasion only. But if they don't get even the name right then aren't there going to be a lot of other mistakes too on their articles? Because the name is easy to get written right.
Of course we give slack to foreigners when it comes to saying our names. Our names are not their language so they are likely not going to be able to say it right. But not even trying, or as admitted by the Bob in this very same thread, knowing how it should be said and can say it so, but still saying it the wrong way, is horrible.
It's these "small" things which in the end make the difference between the good and the bad, the pro and the amateur.
But as I said, of course we give slack to foreigners when it comes to saying our names... for example, a lot of Finnish names are directly meaningful words of our language. You need to know our language to be able to say most of our names correctly. Some names are more easy because they are common in many languages and not said much differently. But anyways, I am certainly not expecting that people whom's native language is English, could say my real name right. It's the "not even trying" or "knowing how it should be done and being able to do it right, but still doing it wrong" which is irritating.
Thanks Anzie...I agree completely. I think Bob Varsha makes more of an effort than most to get the names right. I am an American that likes to impersonate accents and loves to hear people speak in their native tongues. I like to know how people say their names in their language and say them the correct way. You can learn a great deal about names and languages from watching racing, soccer and hockey. I have even noticed different accents from different regions of the countries they are from (Many Americans cannot and say "Whatever?"). I like the Flyers in the NHL and they have quite a few Finnish players. You can compare some of their accents to Mika Hakkinen, Marcus Grönholm (sounds like a Swedish name to me?), Heikki and some of the guys from the Finnish heavy metal bands that I listen to. They don't all sound the same, but you can tell that some are from the same region, by the accent. I have learned some good Finnish driving directions from Grönholm's co-driver!
Many American, British and Canadian commentators are told to Anglicize names of foreigners. The British seem to have started this and the Americans followed. If a city in Germany (Deutschland) is Köln...why on earth do we say Cologne? I work with Russians that laughed at me when I pronounced the capital of Poland as Warsaw, but they pronounced some German names incorrectly as well. My family came to America in 1749 from Germany and part of our last name was changed from "a" to "o" so the English would pronounce it properly! People call me and still can't get it right...I guess it's nothing new?
I do think it is important to learn and pronounce names properly, but the problem with most people is that they cannot do accents as well as I can. Pronunciation is the key. If you know how to say it, though...say it right!
By the way Anzie...we say you are Finnish, but you are actually Suomi, right? I learned that from Olympic Hockey.
I just saw Children of Bodom 2 weeks ago...Good fast driving music! Just picked up the new Korpiklaani CD also.
Sports TV commentators are mentioning these names week in week out, heck all it would take is to get confirmation as to the correct pronounciation the first time a new driver is wheeled out & bobs your uncle.. or at least it should be, I mean its their jobs to recall an element of frequently changing facts & info about racing stuff, so how hard is it to remember the correct name of a driver who by an large stays around for years?
Olivier Panis.
