Dave asked what could we do to improve the motorcycle racing format? It can't get any worse, and unfortunately it can't get any better either. The only way to improve motorcycle racing at any level is to add 2 more wheels!
News Flash, Buckwheat - the DMG boys want to turn motorcycle racing into a spectacle akin to the roundy-round wreck 'em bumper car racing that is so dear to the heart of many folks in this country. Pace cars, rolling starts, lots of yellow flags and low-tech dumbed-down mechanical rules to make racing close. Perhaps they are seeking more wrecks, and we all know how roundy-round fans get excited by wrecks, no?
Yawn -- hey, be sure and watch it - I won't be there, nor will most of the true motorcycle racing fans.
World-class motorcycle racing is very popular in other countries under the FIM, and very viable economically. It sort of fell behind under our AMA, and is now threatened with total ruin thanks to DMG and the NASCAR mentality they propose.
The ONLY thing that would make motorcycle racing in this country better would be for DMG to adopt the FIM standards, but we hold no hope for that.
I wouldn't jump to a lot of conclusions until DMG actually comes out with a rules package. What is wrong with the AMA racing right now is that it seems almost as if they have a class for each of the "big four" Japanese manufacturers, and everybody else just stays home. Take a page from Moto GP, and come up with a formula to handicap multi-cylinder bikes in relation to twins and maybe we'll see Ducati, and Triumph competing with the the Jap bikes as well as seeing the "big four" have to compete with each other instead of each one staking out a class so that all four companies can lay claim to winning!
I hope you are correct, but remember Edmundson got into a major lawsuit with AMA and would doubtlessly like to see them gone forever. This will wind up as a France spectacle for sure.
A lot of folks - myself included - were critical of AMA's program, but it seems wonderful compared to the DMG jive I have seen so far.
The FIM MotoGP bikes are all 800cc four-cylinders including Ducati. World Superbike is as of this year structured to allow 1200cc twins and 1100cc triples to race against 1000cc fours. There is a similar structure in World Supersport.
There was talk about Ducati coming back to American Superbike roadracing with a few concessions from AMA along the lines of the FIM displacement/weight/intake restriction they run (and win with) in World Superbike. Sadly, it appears that won't happen. Some of the smaller Ducatis might wind up in the DMG ham-and-egg "racing."
It would be waaay tooo obvious for DMG to adopt these FIM classes straight across. They will not. Their intent seems to be to create "close racing" -- a la the roundy-round-wreck 'em shows that are so bleeding popular in four-wheel racing.
I do not hate NASCAR and in fact attend their races live, but look at it as entertainment, not racing. Give me a sprint car race on good dirt any day.
Does any one remember the old day's of AMA Grand National racing?
You had 1/2 mile,1 mile, T.T. (which was awesome) short track, on dirt and concrete and Road Racing all going toward the National Championship.
Back in the days these guys did it driving all over the country in the back of their own vans, with NO money,and made all the races, hurt, sick and most often, broke.
I know times were different, but wouldn't that format of racing work in todays market?
Sometimes going back, can bring us forward....
In the 70s I used to do two 2200-mile pilgrimmages yearly to watch the Sacramento Mile and the San Jose Mile. That was in fact was as good as any racing I have ever seen - perhaps the absolute best. I also came south yearly to watch the roadracing at Ontario Motor Speedway - and also Daytona in the 70s and 80s when that was world-class racing. Sigh - that category of racing is gone forever thanks to AMA, and what is left is destined to vanish completely under the dull management of DMG.
Just as sad has been Speed's coverage of the biggest changes in the sport in thirty years. WT ignores the story completely the week the classes are announced. Freddie Spenser talks about how progressive the ideas are. The same guy that gets paid to write AMA website stories talks about how it's not what he had in mind but it will still work. Got to be careful about your paycheck I guess.
Does any one remember the old day's of AMA Grand National racing?
You had 1/2 mile,1 mile, T.T. (which was awesome) short track, on dirt and concrete and Road Racing all going toward the National Championship.
Back in the days these guys did it driving all over the country in the back of their own vans, with NO money,and made all the races, hurt, sick and most often, broke.
I know times were different, but wouldn't that format of racing work in todays market?
Sometimes going back, can bring us forward....
I think it was more feasible back in the day because I think the bikes were not as specialized as they are now. When I say specialized, I mean built to specifically do one thing. I guess supermoto is the only compromise, but it's unfair to ask road racers to be a pro on a dirt bike, as it would also be unfair to ask a motocross guy to throw a leg over a superbike and go flat out at daytona if they've never gone 150mph in their lives before, let alone inches away from a concrete wall. Each discipline is just really, really different. Almost as different as trying to compare driving a stock car to driving an F1 car. Yeah, they're both cars, have 4 wheels and have about 800 or so horsepower. But that's where the similarities end.
Does any one remember the old day's of AMA Grand National racing?
You had 1/2 mile,1 mile, T.T. (which was awesome) short track, on dirt and concrete and Road Racing all going toward the National Championship.
Back in the days these guys did it driving all over the country in the back of their own vans, with NO money,and made all the races, hurt, sick and most often, broke.
I know times were different, but wouldn't that format of racing work in todays market?
Sometimes going back, can bring us forward....
I think it was more feasible back in the day because I think the bikes were not as specialized as they are now. When I say specialized, I mean built to specifically do one thing. I guess supermoto is the only compromise, but it's unfair to ask road racers to be a pro on a dirt bike, as it would also be unfair to ask a motocross guy to throw a leg over a superbike and go flat out at daytona if they've never gone 150mph in their lives before, let alone inches away from a concrete wall. Each discipline is just really, really different. Almost as different as trying to compare driving a stock car to driving an F1 car. Yeah, they're both cars, have 4 wheels and have about 800 or so horsepower. But that's where the similarities end.
I think thats the point, back in the day to be a champion you HAD to be good at all the different disciplines.
You had to 1/2 mile, T.T. and Road race.
Gary Nixon, Cal Raybourn,Kenny Roberts, to name a few were ALL not only excellent Road Racers, but were all spectacular to watch on a dirt 1/2 mile or mile, and they all could WIN doing either and they did it with very little money or technology. THEY ( and many of their peers) were the REAL deal
Does any one remember the old day's of AMA Grand National racing?
You had 1/2 mile,1 mile, T.T. (which was awesome) short track, on dirt and concrete and Road Racing all going toward the National Championship.
Back in the days these guys did it driving all over the country in the back of their own vans, with NO money,and made all the races, hurt, sick and most often, broke.
I know times were different, but wouldn't that format of racing work in todays market?
Sometimes going back, can bring us forward....
I think it was more feasible back in the day because I think the bikes were not as specialized as they are now. When I say specialized, I mean built to specifically do one thing. I guess supermoto is the only compromise, but it's unfair to ask road racers to be a pro on a dirt bike, as it would also be unfair to ask a motocross guy to throw a leg over a superbike and go flat out at daytona if they've never gone 150mph in their lives before, let alone inches away from a concrete wall. Each discipline is just really, really different. Almost as different as trying to compare driving a stock car to driving an F1 car. Yeah, they're both cars, have 4 wheels and have about 800 or so horsepower. But that's where the similarities end.
I think thats the point, back in the day to be a champion you HAD to be good at all the different disciplines.
You had to 1/2 mile, T.T. and Road race.
Gary Nixon, Cal Raybourn,Kenny Roberts, to name a few were ALL not only excellent Road Racers, but were all spectacular to watch on a dirt 1/2 mile or mile, and they all could WIN doing either and they did it with very little money or technology. THEY ( and many of their peers) were the REAL deal
Understandable, but then which bike do you use? All of them? Or a supermoto?
Does any one remember the old day's of AMA Grand National racing?
You had 1/2 mile,1 mile, T.T. (which was awesome) short track, on dirt and concrete and Road Racing all going toward the National Championship.
Back in the days these guys did it driving all over the country in the back of their own vans, with NO money,and made all the races, hurt, sick and most often, broke.
I know times were different, but wouldn't that format of racing work in todays market?
Sometimes going back, can bring us forward....
I think it was more feasible back in the day because I think the bikes were not as specialized as they are now. When I say specialized, I mean built to specifically do one thing. I guess supermoto is the only compromise, but it's unfair to ask road racers to be a pro on a dirt bike, as it would also be unfair to ask a motocross guy to throw a leg over a superbike and go flat out at daytona if they've never gone 150mph in their lives before, let alone inches away from a concrete wall. Each discipline is just really, really different. Almost as different as trying to compare driving a stock car to driving an F1 car. Yeah, they're both cars, have 4 wheels and have about 800 or so horsepower. But that's where the similarities end.
I think thats the point, back in the day to be a champion you HAD to be good at all the different disciplines.
You had to 1/2 mile, T.T. and Road race.
Gary Nixon, Cal Raybourn,Kenny Roberts, to name a few were ALL not only excellent Road Racers, but were all spectacular to watch on a dirt 1/2 mile or mile, and they all could WIN doing either and they did it with very little money or technology. THEY ( and many of their peers) were the REAL deal
Understandable, but then which bike do you use? All of them? Or a supermoto?
They used the best bike built by their maker for the job. Take Yamaha for instance. Kenny Roberts rode a XS 650 on the flat tracks and a TZ roadrace bike for the road courses. Of course some riders were at a disadvantage on certain surfaces. The format did have its issues however because there were usually more dirt tracks than road courses and it leaned in that direction.
Dave asked what could we do to improve the motorcycle racing format? It can't get any worse, and unfortunately it can't get any better either. The only way to improve motorcycle racing at any level is to add 2 more wheels!
You don't watch World Superbike or MotoGP much, eh? Even BSB provides good racing. It's just the AMA series that sucks. I was hoping DMG (NASCAR) would adopt the FIM regulations to make the racing better, but it looks like they're going to make it even worse than it is now. 600's as the premier class?
I rode my BSA Gold Star on desert Hare & Hounds, scrambles, half mile flat track and street (after I put the headlight back on). Later, I switched to Harley K-model for half mile and TT and HD knucklehead for drag races. This was pretty much standard practice if you didn't have any money. Everyone did it back then including the top riders.
Well it seems our opinions don't matter anyway. It was last week's question of the week but it the responses weren't even mentioned. Speed executives are pissed because there is a rumor NASCAR ownes 25% of the network that won't go away. Yet they ignore any NASCAR criticium they can. Ever hear of the crowd sizes at Grand Am races? The race at VIR had 8,000 to 8,500 while last August's AMA race had over 20,000 on Sunday. How about the fly buy night chassis manufacturers that were originally in the series? I think one out of the five is still in business. The only reason Lola and Dallara were allowed in was to have enough cars available to run the series. And still all we hear about are the success the new management has had. Well Dave, where is it?
