Yes Lorenzo has gotten to a better start then Pedrosa. But you have to admit that Lorenzo has come into the series on a bike that is better suited for a 250 rider. The Yamaha he's riding has been developed by a multi-time champion and has gotten lucky that Michelin has stepped up its tires for this season. If Lorenzo came into the series last year his results would have been different. He's a very good rider and maybe the next best rider but time will tell. Don't count Pedrosa out yet.
But all in all I'd like to see Rossi win one or two more championships before he retires.
MMsports54 - 09 May 2008 02:51 PM
tzpilot - 09 May 2008 02:04 PM
Or he may just be the Spanish version of Biaggi? He was second best a lot of times too.
That's exactly who I think Pedrosa is right. Both won multiple 250 championships, both had early success in the premier class. Both have short man's syndrome. Both were bad teammates. Only difference is that on a good day Biaggi could battle and get the better of Rossi. Pedrosa has yet to do so in a straight fight. Still, it's really early in Pedrosa's career and he can still address his weaknesses. I wouldn't write him off for a title just yet, but Lorenzo's Moto GP career has gotten off to a stronger start than Pedrosa's did.
You must have an insider link to go with that comment because according to Colin Edwards........
And Edwards is happy to see the Japanese factory enjoying an upturn in fortunes after he played a key role during winter testing.
The American told MCN: “The black and white of it is that there was no Valentino over the early part of winter. And with his lack of experience at that time, Jorge had nothing to do with development in November.
“Sure he tested some things to get a direction but the reality is that I did all the testing on the new bike in November. In Sepang and Jerez I picked out what I liked about certain things and now we have got a bike that everybody can ride and not just one guy like we’ve seen in the past.
“I’m not tooting my own horn, but we have a bike that four guys can ride comfortably on at a fast pace which has never been the Yamaha thing.”
Hmmmm, sounds like a bike developed by a WSBK champion.
Former SBK champ, he's been a GP rider for 5 seasons and was a 250 rider before superbikes. Edwards is extremely happy that Rossi is on Bridgestones too, as all the development isn't aimed at Rossi.
it's quite possible lorenzo will be be rossi to dani's max. max had title written all over him until vale showed up. can you say bridesmaid?
It's quite possible that previous patterns don't quite apply and that no one will remember this thread by November, let alone when any of these "he's the next Biaggi/Rossi" predictions are confirmed/falsified.
If Biaggi's initial success is supposedly the kiss of death, then Lorenzo, having done better than Pedrosa in his rookie year, will be more likely to fall into the Biaggi role (if I'm understanding how this prediction game works, like using numerology to confirm already-held opinions).
I could go there too Biagi... Crystal ball could turn out to be completely accurate. I think Lorenzo is of a charater / nature that will eventually be his undoing. Yet, he proved me wrong before... i.e. he won a race. I think Dani will do what Max couldn't win a title. But, having said that... Nicky, Stoner, & Rossi are and will continue to be knocking on the door.
I'll give Colin all the credit he needs and deserves in helping develop the bike But even more to Yamaha. The bike still seems to have the will to do goofy things. It has spat Rossi off before for no apparent reason and now is spitting Lorenzo off. Edwards seems to have been the one who consistently DOESN'T get spit off. Smart rider who rides within the equipment limits..IMO.
it's quite possible lorenzo will be be rossi to dani's max. max had title written all over him until vale showed up. can you say bridesmaid?
It's quite possible that previous patterns don't quite apply and that no one will remember this thread by November, let alone when any of these "he's the next Biaggi/Rossi" predictions are confirmed/falsified.
If Biaggi's initial success is supposedly the kiss of death, then Lorenzo, having done better than Pedrosa in his rookie year, will be more likely to fall into the Biaggi role (if I'm understanding how this prediction game works, like using numerology to confirm already-held opinions).
You're definitely right in saying previous patterns may not apply.
It's just a matter of opinion and seeing things in certain riders that form a judgement. That'd be my case.
Biaggi had the title in '00 if he could've kept his head and used the advantage the Yam had over the Suzuki. But he didn't. Pedrosa now has experience, enough of it, but can he keep that for a whole season? When he has to fight for wins head-to-head, when it rains, when the bike is not 100%? He had no pressure from third at Shanghai knowing he lost the win, what will he do when the situation arises that he does have that pressure. And when the title is on the line?
We'll have to see. He's still the spanish Max to me. Great 250 rider does not translate to great big-bike rider. I just don't see it in him. Fans will always be optimistic, but rarely realistic. Again, my opinion.
Ok, somebody accused me of bashing all American riders, but it isn't true. I usually just stick to Nicky, and Colin on occasion.
And this is one of those occasions. I like Colin, but sometimes I think he is drunk when he gives interviews. Is he really trying to take credit for the Yam being so good? Really?
First of all it is good, but not great. What has been great are the Michelins, especially for qualli. Yam and HRC are the only competitive teams running them, and so that is why they have been at the front so much. Dani and Jorge are riding well, but the tires are helping a lot (no comment on Nicky).
But I also remember Vale doing a LOT of work over the winter. Sure he had the adapt the bike to the Stones, but he was saying from the start (even after Qatar) that the bike had potential, but still needed a lot of work.
So Colin, if you are a development genius, why didn't Aprilia improve at all? Oh yeah, remember Aprilia? That little Italian company that shelled out 5 million bucks to have you ride for them (when the dollar was stronger than the Euro).
Sure they were using fancy technology that seemed over the top at the time... but all of the other teams are using it now! Maybe they had a good idea but had not development direction.
So Colin, if you are a development genius, why didn't Aprilia improve at all? Oh yeah, remember Aprilia? That little Italian company that shelled out 5 million bucks to have you ride for them (when the dollar was stronger than the Euro).
Do you really think they were spending money developing the bike? It was a technological marvel, but also an underdeveloped nightmare. It didn't even have on-board fire extinguishers!
Aprilia out-sourced everything, and stuck their necks out pretty far. Throw into that the fact that Edwards was new to MotoGP at that time, he'd just left the superbike ranks - but I really don't think Aprilia was going anywhere. That $5,000,000 won't lease you a Suzuki now so it doesn't sound quite as impressive!
As far as Edwards and this year's Yamaha, I think he is referring to the fact that Rossi couldn't swing a leg over the bike until January 20-something as he couldn't use Bridgestones until then, and then spent a couple of tests figuring the tires out. Most of the development work fell on Edwards. Contrary to your assessment the bike is working well for all it's riders, no other factory can say that.
Gary, I understand and agree that Colin definatley had some imput into it. Like you said, he was the only experienced guy riding it before the end of Jan.
But I think there was still plenty of development from the end of January onwards. We know that Yam wanted to put extra effort into the bike this year (bringing back one of their older, big time Jap bosses), and most of that effort was directed at Rossi.
The year he switched from Honda, Rossi wasn't allowed to ride till January either. Still, he and Burgess only needed half the winter to get the bike to race winning form.
Again, I give Colin some credit (I like the guy) but you can't say the bike is his baby.
As for Aprilia, I know $5 million isn't everything... but it is a big rider sallary (again, the dollar was STRONGER than the Euro back then), and don't forget that Aprilia went bankrupt a few years later.
I don't know what the problem was, but they were using Pnumatics, fly-by wire and likely some TC from the get go. I don't think anyone else did the same.
But now they are part of the Piaggio empire, and should be back in a few years. Should be interesting to see how they do. Considering that they own 250's, we can assume they know how to make a lightweight bike handle.
Well I agree with the assessment of Dani. I believe I am right when I say "When on equal footing with equipment, most of the top riders pass him with ease". Nothing has changed so far this year that I can tell. Kudos to Edwards for helping make progress on the Yamaha. It has even more potential I think but, Yamaha may not develop it further. Especailly if Rossi starts winning a lot of races again. It is quirky at times. But recently so is the Honda.
I agree that the riders are pushing to the limits and beyond more than ever and more of them. Ever since Nicky proved Rossi is not a god. Everybody believes they have a chance now.
As for Aprilia, I know $5 million isn't everything... but it is a big rider sallary (again, the dollar was STRONGER than the Euro back then), and don't forget that Aprilia went bankrupt a few years later.
Come on you can't blame Colin if Aprilia paid him too much money. Nobody put a gun to their head and forced them to pay that much. If you think it wasn't worth it and it hurt Aprilia then you need to point the finger at whoever signed the check.
I don't know what the problem was, but they were using Pnumatics, fly-by wire and likely some TC from the get go. I don't think anyone else did the same.
They had Cosworth build the engine using Formula 1 technology which is not suited to the motorcycle application. This is the same reason Honda doesn't have their pneumatic valve engine out yet. No small wonder that they failed but maybe if they had rode it out that bike could have been competitive.
I don't know what the problem was, but they were using Pnumatics, fly-by wire and likely some TC from the get go. I don't think anyone else did the same.
I think, to some degree, that WAS the problem - if Honda had done the same they'd have made it work, but Aprilia simply didn't have resources to force all that new technology forward. Great ideas but undeveloped technology in motorcycle circles. I know Edwards said that when you opened the throttle you never really knew what was going to happen, and the rider can't solely cure that.
As far as development of this year's Yamaha, I think, and may be wrong, that they have been using the same chassis since Rossi has been able to test. If that is the case it was developed by Edwards. Everything since certainly involves Rossi's input, and I'm in no was denigrating Rossi. I still think he's the best rider, and probably development rider, in the series (f not the world.
Well I agree with the assessment of Dani. I believe I am right when I say "When on equal footing with equipment, most of the top riders pass him with ease". Nothing has changed so far this year that I can tell. Kudos to Edwards for helping make progress on the Yamaha. It has even more potential I think but, Yamaha may not develop it further. Especailly if Rossi starts winning a lot of races again. It is quirky at times. But recently so is the Honda.
