odie - 29 April 2008 03:46 PM

highlander179 - 29 April 2008 01:30 PM

Ducati Rules - 29 April 2008 01:17 PM

The reason this wasn't an option, imo, is it would leave Buell to contest the "non" premier class and they (DMG) desparately want them in the top category.

Have you taken a look to see how competitive Buell has been in MotoST?

That is where the ECU's come into play. Like I said before the teams already assume there will not be a "spec" ECU for the class or even a model. Like I said in another thread, if you read the interview with the two DMG officials on the SOUP site there is no doubt they are only concerned with attracting the Harley crowds just like the NHRA has done. And just like the NHRA they will what ever it takes to make Harley win. The NHRA has even added weight to the aftermarket "Buell" engine bikes because the factory Harleys aren't winning.

No way to have spec ECU unless all the engines are the same - in F1 every engine is a V10 so they can do it.

If they start adding weight 'so the Harley can win', that will surely drive the factories out. Perhaps that's what they want, who knows. But recall how Honda dropped the AMA flat track series when they came in and slowed the Honda down so the ancient XR 750's could compete with Bubba and his team mates. Honda walked away and didn't return.

Roberts was a factory rider for Yamaha his entire career. However you guys want to nit-pick his level of support you think he had is irrelevant.

joe_b - 29 April 2008 04:55 PM

Roberts was a factory rider for Yamaha his entire career. However you guys want to nit-pick his level of support you think he had is irrelevant.

Hmmmm, yeah, Kenny must be wrong....

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/features/122_0503_kenny_roberts/index.html

KR -

It started to dawn on me that maybe I wasn't exactly a factory rider, struggling as we were to put together our own program to compete in Europe. I wasn't that smart in those days. I'm not sure I'm any smarter now--I'm still struggling to find tires and money! In any case, Goodyear made the commitment and off we went. Kel and I had a small Mercedes transporter and two mechanics, Nobby Clark and Trevor Tilbury.

When we got to our first race it became crystal clear that, for sure, I wasn't a Yamaha factory rider. Venezuelan rider Johnny Cecotto was. It wasn't hard to tell; all we had to do was look at his equipment and then look at ours. We did have a Yamaha engineer by the name of Mikawa, and at some races we also had a Goodyear technician. But it was us against the factory, really.

joe_b - 29 April 2008 04:55 PM

Roberts was a factory rider for Yamaha his entire career. However you guys want to nit-pick his level of support you think he had is irrelevant.

Gary, you could probably mince word to say that Kenny wasn't always the #1 rider at Yamaha and had to make do with what they gave him. Yes, he was the only one to use Goodyear tires and Yamaha prodded him to race 250s& F1 at the same time as the 500s, while the other guys got to focus on the 500s alone. There's been a lot written about Kenny lately. The current RoadRacing World and last months Racer Magazine had something about him. In the end, I do believe Yamaha was writing his checks but at the same time he said he made money doing personal appearances.

joe, i raced for Honda of Houston in '98. You may know them from the monster rig they run at sx. i think what's his name from Mexico ran sx for them back in the early 2000s. I had a fancy embroidered shirt, the bike looked all fancy like cause we painted it that way. they even brought the rig out for one of the races and we sat in the AC b/w ride but what does that really mean? they gave us 5k that we put towards tires @ $400 a pop, and gave us cost plus on parts. that's it. hella better than nothing but no bike, no salary, no gas and definitely no unobtanium rubber. i had to quit cause i couldn't afford it. a "factory ride" can be deceiving. let us know if you have trouble getting you're heel back out past your tonsils. love it when people call themselves morons


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gary, i have concerns too. as i said i'm not in love w/ rolling starts tho, being open minded, as restarts they actually seem more fair. if i took a 1/2 lap lead and a redflag from some backmarker blew it for me i'd be real pissed if second got the jump to 1 in the restart. a roller could actually be better.

i was considering the pace car this am and decided the same thing. for redflags, it allowing a roller is better than the gridded restart as for fairness if you don't use elapsed time.

if you're really concerned w/ safety, the start is the most dangerous part of the race. rollers would be safer.

i'm not saying it's great. it's definitely different and i know how people hate change. i'm just saying so far i haven't seen anything to back all this uproar except fear and speculation.

as for sifan, i think you missed my point. he's not a pro so he has a job like you and me. he's been a roadracer for 30ish years and he's pretty #### good. you can call him a paper pusher, i call him a roadracer who actually gets paid to work in the field he loves. personally i don't think many former racers have the smarts to run an org. a "paper pusher" is probably better. my point was to let you know you have someone from roadracing on the inside. take it as you will

X1TX - 29 April 2008 06:29 AM

But my thing is that DMG is going to take a class that's proven to be one of the less popular classes (Formula Extremely-boring) and make that the 'premier' class..

i think you're missing the point. it's boring b/c factory honda is cherrypicking against privateers. it's like a club champ racing novice. DMG is making it the premier class. it will have the premier riders and premier equip. see the difference?

highlander179 - 29 April 2008 01:30 PM

Ducati Rules - 29 April 2008 01:17 PM

The reason this wasn't an option, imo, is it would leave Buell to contest the "non" premier class and they (DMG) desparately want them in the top category.

Have you taken a look to see how competitive Buell has been in MotoST?

No because endurance racing doesn't interest me, all I have seen is their lack of success in FX. If they can't get their development together enough to compete against the Japanese factory teams in the Daytona 200 (where they have pretty much been back markers) they will get their butts kicked week in and week out when they try to compete in DMG superbike.

motoho - 29 April 2008 01:23 PM

Ducati Rules - 29 April 2008 01:17 PM

Shift the team ownership to "private" ownership instead of direct ownership by the factories and then even out the equipment through the rules.

What frustrates me is the number of people who seem to think this is easy. The series doesn't have a title sponsor, one that would be announced at every event, how are they going to find people to spend MORE on a team that may or may not get TV exposure?

Nobody said it would be easy, but DMG could have made it easier on themselves by making the changes gradually instead of all at once. As far as who will invest in team ownership, that is the problem of DMG. They are the ones that want private ownership and to get the factories out of the team ownership business. They will have to convince people that there will be a payoff to the investment.

I personally don't care if the manufacturers can still own their own teams, as long as they are held to the same rules it shouldn't matter.

Look at Jordan Suzuki, they have been able to get decent sponsorship and money to develop their bikes into competitive machines, not just in super stock and super sport but also superbike. They have been finishing ahead of some other factory teams pretty consistently. They have also worked with Bazzaz performance to develop their own electronics package so they don't have to rely on what the factory will give them. If DMG is determined to go down this path those are the kind of owners they will need, truth be told I don't know how many others are out there. In the end it will still end up like Nascar where you have a few teams that have more financial resources and can outspend the rest.

As far as no title sponsor for Superbike that is the fault of the AMA. Why weren't they able to find a sponsor when AMA superbike has all the history, numerous races, TV coverage. Heck even DMG was able to get a title sponsor for Moto-ST when there was nothing but an idea.

garyb425 - 29 April 2008 01:25 PM

People also forget that Yoshimura Suzuki is a private team.

Yes they are a private team much like Graves Yamaha but they get support from the factory that no one else gets. That seems to be the crux of the issue, there are either full factory teams or private teams with full factory sponsorship that has access to parts and resources that no one else can get.

So again in my opinion you don't need to kick the factories out of owning teams but set the rules up to make sure parts and resources are available to everyone. Now that doesn't mean that everyone will have the $ to get those parts or resources but strong teams (ie Erion Honda, Jordan Suzuki, Corona Honda, M4 Emgo Suzuki, etc...) should be able to get all the parts and pieces that a Yosh, Graves, or Factory Honda can.