As a spin off from the Turbo thread ....

Here is a list of current engines, that are in cars today. I didn't put in the BIG engines in some cases :

Honda Engines:


190-hp , 2.4-Liter, 16-Valve, DOHC, i-VTEC® 4-Cylinder Engine
268-hp, 3.5-Liter, 24-Valve, SOHC V-6 Engine
268-hp, 3.5-Liter, 24-Valve, SOHC i-VTEC® V-6 Engine with VCM® (EX-L V-6 5AT models)
VAT is Variable Cylinder Managment


Toyota Engines:


2.4-liter DOHC 16-valve VVT-i 4-cylinder 158 hp
3.5-liter DOHC 24-valve Dual VVT-i V6 268 hp
Hybrid Engine: 2.4-liter DOHC 16-valve VVT-i-4-cylinder Hybrid 147 hp

Again, a 2.4 liter and a 3.5 liter engine.


Nissan Engines:

175 hp 2.5 liter 4 Cylinder
200 hp 2.5 liter 4 Cylinder
255 Hp 3.5 liter V6
270 hp 3.5 liter V6
306 Hp 3.5 liter V6


Ford Engines:

Duratec 2.0L 16v I4
Duratec 2.3L 16V I4
Duratec 3.0L 24V V6
Duratec 3.5L DOHC, 24V V6
4.0L SOHC 12V V6
4.6L OHV 24V V8
5.4L 32V supercharged and intercooled V8


Chevy Engines:

2.2L DOHC ECOTEC four-cylinder
2.4L DOHC ECOTEC High Output four-cylinder
3.5L V6 with Variable Valve Timing with federal emissions, E85-compatible
3.6L V6 DOHC engine with VVT
3.9L V6 with Active Fuel Management™, E85-compatible
5.3L small block V8


Dodge Engines:

1.8L DOHC 16v 4 cylinder
2.0L DOHC 16v 4 cylinder
2.4L DOHC 16v 173hp 4 Cylinder" World Engine "
2.4L DOHC 16V Turbo 285hp 265 ft/lbs torque
2.7L DOHC 24V V6 189hp Flex fuel
3.5L V6 SOHC 235hp
3.5L High Output SOHC 250hp

The obvious trend is that a 3.5 liter V6 is common in ALL of them. The next thing is that the approx 2.4 liter 4 cylinder is also common in all of them. Dodge even puts a turbo on one of theirs.

If you want to get their attention, make one of THESE size engines on the table. I have not found the detailed specs, at this point, but I doubt the configuration differs that much from each make.

The current IRL engine is 3.5L DOHC V8 with a rev-limiter at 10,300 rpm.

Looking at an article on a Nissan Fan website some people were able to dyno Nissan's 3.5L V6 at 400hp at 6300rpm. This was after doing some mods and putting a Turbo Kit on.

As long as the revs were limited to 10,000 I see no problem with a turbocharged V6 in Indy Car.

Why stop at 10K ? The limit should be based on a HP number, not a RPM number. Make a target HP and let the revs fall where they may. Besides, 10K on a 6 cylinder doesn't sound very exciting. The Busch series had V6s and they went to 8 or 9K and were dropped for sounding slow.

The 3.0 liter NA V-10 used in Formula 1 a few years ago.

With minor modifications it could be adapted for use in ICS easily.

It was manufactured by Honda and Cosworth. In Cosworth's case it could be easily badged by Chevrolet, Ford or Mazda.

Employing such a powerplant would open up a number of other manufacturers for participation in the series who have produced this engine in the past. Those manufacturers include, Mercedes, BMW, Toyota, Ferrari/Fiat and Renault. Chrysler also has familiarity with the V-10 as it produces an 8.3 liter version of the engine used in the Viper.

The 3 liter NA V-10 is a very attractive option from a manufacturer participation perspective.

jcmark611 - 13 April 2008 07:43 AM

The current IRL engine is 3.5L DOHC V8 with a rev-limiter at 10,300 rpm.

Looking at an article on a Nissan Fan website some people were able to dyno Nissan's 3.5L V6 at 400hp at 6300rpm. This was after doing some mods and putting a Turbo Kit on.

As long as the revs were limited to 10,000 I see no problem with a turbocharged V6 in Indy Car.

How much HP and torque would that produce?

Let me check into that. There is a HP -> Torque formula, but it may not be accurate, because I wouldn't know some of the engine details. HP is acctualy implied from the torque, on a dyno.

Still, the F1 engines have less than 300 ft-lbs. The pistons are small, and the throw is very short, so the lever arm distance ( on the crank ) is small.

BigBend - 13 April 2008 12:45 PM

The 3.0 liter NA V-10 used in Formula 1 a few years ago.

With minor modifications it could be adapted for use in ICS easily.

It was manufactured by Honda and Cosworth. In Cosworth's case it could be easily badged by Chevrolet, Ford or Mazda.

Employing such a powerplant would open up a number of other manufacturers for participation in the series who have produced this engine in the past. Those manufacturers include, Mercedes, BMW, Toyota, Ferrari/Fiat and Renault. Chrysler also has familiarity with the V-10 as it produces an 8.3 liter version of the engine used in the Viper.

The 3 liter NA V-10 is a very attractive option from a manufacturer participation perspective.

Big problem there is the absolutely astronomical cost of F1 engines.

Breaker - 13 April 2008 07:11 PM

BigBend - 13 April 2008 12:45 PM

The 3.0 liter NA V-10 used in Formula 1 a few years ago.

With minor modifications it could be adapted for use in ICS easily.

It was manufactured by Honda and Cosworth. In Cosworth's case it could be easily badged by Chevrolet, Ford or Mazda.

Employing such a powerplant would open up a number of other manufacturers for participation in the series who have produced this engine in the past. Those manufacturers include, Mercedes, BMW, Toyota, Ferrari/Fiat and Renault. Chrysler also has familiarity with the V-10 as it produces an 8.3 liter version of the engine used in the Viper.

The 3 liter NA V-10 is a very attractive option from a manufacturer participation perspective.

Big problem there is the absolutely astronomical cost of F1 engines.

That problem can be easily addressed by switching them over to mechanical valve springs and eliminating the exotic metals used in casting the block and crankshaft. Their only purpose is to obtain the exceedingly low weight and extraordinary high strength to run at 19K RPM. Kept under 14K such an engine would be durable, comparatively cheap and provide all of the Horsepower and torque the League would need.

BigBend - 13 April 2008 08:01 PM

Breaker - 13 April 2008 07:11 PM

BigBend - 13 April 2008 12:45 PM

The 3.0 liter NA V-10 used in Formula 1 a few years ago.

With minor modifications it could be adapted for use in ICS easily.

It was manufactured by Honda and Cosworth. In Cosworth's case it could be easily badged by Chevrolet, Ford or Mazda.

Employing such a powerplant would open up a number of other manufacturers for participation in the series who have produced this engine in the past. Those manufacturers include, Mercedes, BMW, Toyota, Ferrari/Fiat and Renault. Chrysler also has familiarity with the V-10 as it produces an 8.3 liter version of the engine used in the Viper.

The 3 liter NA V-10 is a very attractive option from a manufacturer participation perspective.

Big problem there is the absolutely astronomical cost of F1 engines.

That problem can be easily addressed by switching them over to mechanical valve springs and eliminating the exotic metals used in casting the block and crankshaft. Their only purpose is to obtain the exceedingly low weight and extraordinary high strength to run at 19K RPM. Kept under 14K such an engine would be durable, comparatively cheap and provide all of the Horsepower and torque the League would need.

I think those engines had vibration problems in the 12,000-15,000 rev range.

If going the F1 engine route, it would make more sense to base it on the current long-life V8's. Cheaper and longer lasting than the V10's. And Cosworth obviously has one sitting on the shelf collecting dust right now.

But even if they could somehow get the cost down to $5million/year it would still be too much.

Racer2008 - 14 April 2008 06:29 AM

BigBend - 13 April 2008 08:01 PM

Breaker - 13 April 2008 07:11 PM

BigBend - 13 April 2008 12:45 PM

The 3.0 liter NA V-10 used in Formula 1 a few years ago.

With minor modifications it could be adapted for use in ICS easily.

It was manufactured by Honda and Cosworth. In Cosworth's case it could be easily badged by Chevrolet, Ford or Mazda.

Employing such a powerplant would open up a number of other manufacturers for participation in the series who have produced this engine in the past. Those manufacturers include, Mercedes, BMW, Toyota, Ferrari/Fiat and Renault. Chrysler also has familiarity with the V-10 as it produces an 8.3 liter version of the engine used in the Viper.

The 3 liter NA V-10 is a very attractive option from a manufacturer participation perspective.

Big problem there is the absolutely astronomical cost of F1 engines.

That problem can be easily addressed by switching them over to mechanical valve springs and eliminating the exotic metals used in casting the block and crankshaft. Their only purpose is to obtain the exceedingly low weight and extraordinary high strength to run at 19K RPM. Kept under 14K such an engine would be durable, comparatively cheap and provide all of the Horsepower and torque the League would need.

I think those engines had vibration problems in the 12,000-15,000 rev range.

The V-10 is unique among engines in it's vibrational characteristics. V-10's have distinct vibrational RPM points. 7000 RPM, 14,000 RPM 21,000 RPM when the points are reach and maintained the engine vibrates. Avoid those points and you avoid the problem. V-8 engines vibrate at all RPMs proportionally. The higher you rev it the greater the vibration. V-10 also have the property of vibrating in one plane, vertically, V-8's vibrating rotationally making it more difficult to mount and induces larger stress on support components

If going the F1 engine route, it would make more sense to base it on the current long-life V8's. Cheaper and longer lasting than the V10's. And Cosworth obviously has one sitting on the shelf collecting dust right now.

But even if they could somehow get the cost down to $5million/year it would still be too much.

Cost reduction and long-life techniques can be applied to the V-10 to get it's cost under 2 million dollars.

V-8s would seemto be the way to go as they are traditionally American and everybody builds one The Cosworth V-10 F-1 engine is an intriguing proposition but you could just dut off the V-8 it was run in a 3500 configuratuin also. Whatever is done pick a formula that gets more than one engine manufacturer involved,let's get away from these spec races