Does anyone know what the term "Enging Badging" means?

I read in Cavin's blog today that if they eliminate engine badging that other suppliers, namely Cosworth, might be interested in returning to Indycars. But Cavin went on to say that he does like badging.

Can anyone fill me in on what this is all about?

IndyGuy - 10 April 2008 05:02 PM

Does anyone know what the term "Enging Badging" means?

I read in Cavin's blog today that if they eliminate engine badging that other suppliers, namely Cosworth, might be interested in returning to Indycars. But Cavin went on to say that he does like badging.

Can anyone fill me in on what this is all about?

Well companies like Cosworth don't build engines (AFAIK), they basically take for example a Ford unit, tweak and optimize it and badge it as a Cosworth.

But then the above comment doesn't make sense, how could Cosworth return if they don't build their own engines???

I'm sure someone will come up with a better explanation.

You've got it backwards. Cosworth designs and produces their own race engines, but they don't sell them in street cars.

For instance, Cosworth built the motors for Champ Car in 2005 (among other years), but Ford paid money for those Cosworth engines to be called Fords. It's essentially just advertising. Ford got to say that they powered CCWS, and their logos were everywhere, despite the fact that Ford didn't actually produce anything for the series.

GoodJobThatMan - 10 April 2008 06:05 PM

You've got it backwards. Cosworth designs and produces their own race engines, but they don't sell them in street cars.

Really? when did this happen?

Ford Sierra and Escort Cosworths where very much street cars amongst many others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosworth#Road_cars

Thanks for the clarification on the badging, I knew I'd be wrong.

Cosworth has done a lot of engine work for people over the years -- some has included taking existing street engines and modifying them.

But from a race engine perspective, Cosworth has built it's own engines. Ford, Jag, and even Chevy have paid for the naming of various engines in various series over time.

Steve

Steve Levin - 10 April 2008 06:29 PM

Cosworth has done a lot of engine work for people over the years -- some has included taking existing street engines and modifying them.

But from a race engine perspective, Cosworth has built it's own engines. Ford, Jag, and even Chevy have paid for the naming of various engines in various series over time.

Steve

Yep, Steve's pretty much got it right.

Branded (Ford, Mazda, or whoever paying Cosworth to develop an engine then call it "their's") or someone developing their own (ala F1's and nascar's engines, and the current Indycar Honda engines) would be fine, so long as there's competition (which would actually make the price/cost go down a bit, you'd think) and thus more engines to go around!

dar63 - 10 April 2008 06:17 PM

GoodJobThatMan - 10 April 2008 06:05 PM

You've got it backwards. Cosworth designs and produces their own race engines, but they don't sell them in street cars.

Really? when did this happen?

Ford Sierra and Escort Cosworths where very much street cars amongst many others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosworth#Road_cars

Thanks for the clarification on the badging, I knew I'd be wrong.

I didn't say they never did, but they don't now...hence the badging.

It works both ways. Cosworth Builds engines for race cars that carry a car manufacturers name. They also build street car engines based on the Ford engine blocks and are sold under the Cosworth banner. The rumor mill is saying they may make a engine form scratch for Subaru.

Ford owned Cosworth from 1998-2004. They have also spent millions on development with Cosworth on engines since 1964. The first true Cosworth racing engine was developed from a Ford block.
I would not be surprised to see the two companies team up again for Formula type OW racing.

gnome - 10 April 2008 07:46 PM

Steve Levin - 10 April 2008 06:29 PM

Cosworth has done a lot of engine work for people over the years -- some has included taking existing street engines and modifying them.

But from a race engine perspective, Cosworth has built it's own engines. Ford, Jag, and even Chevy have paid for the naming of various engines in various series over time.

Steve

Yep, Steve's pretty much got it right.

Branded (Ford, Mazda, or whoever paying Cosworth to develop an engine then call it "their's") or someone developing their own (ala F1's and nascar's engines, and the current Indycar Honda engines) would be fine, so long as there's competition (which would actually make the price/cost go down a bit, you'd think) and thus more engines to go around!

You are thinking about competition in a business sense and not a racing sense. In the business world companies continue to look for ways to make their product the cheapest way possible. In racing, McLaren Mercedes can get a $100 million dollar fine and that still lives them money for a buget. In racing teams will spend as much money as they can to go faster. A spec. series with spec. motors is MUCH cheaper than competition.

Who all is out there building motors at the moment? Cosworth. I don't think Ilmor is? Judd and AER make an ALMS motor at least, others?