Next-gen.biz had a feature article the other day on the state of racing games, and though it mostly seems to focus on the console side of things, some of the content is relevant to PC gamers as well.
Full article is at the link, here's a bit of the conversation:
FEATURE: Is Racing Gaming On Its Last Lap?
The makers of Project Gotham Racing, MotorStorm, Sega Rally and Dirt tell all.
Impossibly shiny cars, breathtaking speed, blue skies and roaring engines: racers were once videogaming’s ultimate expression of realism crossed with escapist fantasy. But while other genres have rapidly evolved, from the thunder and bluster of modern FPSes to the vast scope of RPGs, racers seem stuck in the same old routine of race upon tournament.
Even the biggest sellers don’t seem to be performing as well as they used to: once a perennial fixture at the very top of the UK Christmas chart, Need For Speed managed only fifth place as 2007 turned to 2008. Buried in the blizzard of last year’s big releases, Project Gotham Racing 4 has failed to ignite the same fervor as its predecessors. And can Gran Turismo’s luster really sell PS3 the same way it once did PS1 and PS2?
And yet a few titles are breaking out of the mould, incorporating new ways of presenting races and multiplayer experiences, and hinting at how the genre can reinvent itself. To see how they view their place in videogaming and what challenges lie ahead, we went karting with Nigel Kershaw, game director at MotorStorm maker Evolution Studios, Gareth Wilson and Gerard Talbot, lead designers on the Project Gotham series at Bizarre Creations, Guy Wilday, studio director at Sega Racing Studio, and Gavin Raeburn, executive producer on Codemasters’ Dirt and the forthcoming Race Driver: Grid.
Which racing game do you most respect right now?
Raeburn: Test Drive Unlimited. I’m still playing and really enjoying it. It’s not really a racing game, more of a driving game, but even though what you’re doing is pretty much the same as any racing game, it’s packaged in a much more authentic way. In a traditional racing game it’s mode after mode – Test Drive presents things in a more encompassing and believable way.
Wilson: The start, when you’re queuing up for the plane to go to Hawaii, that’s excellent – you do feel that you’re this person that’s gone on the plane, bought a house, a car.
Talbot: One of the funny things about that game is it is set as a big multiplayer racing game but I don’t think I ever tried the multiplayer – you’d see people, it’s an online persistent world, though I didn’t actually play anyone.
Kershaw: I suppose it’s an early prototype of what persistent racing could be. It never came off as well as it ought to have done.
Raeburn: You were encouraged to play multiplayer, but you didn’t have to.
You mention the importance of Test Drive’s presentation – how crucial do you think it is in terms of developing the genre?
Raeburn: It helps give a structure; it gives what you do a meaning. If you compare Burnout Paradise to the older ones, what you’re basically doing is similar but the open world adds a whole new dimension. It’s certainly something that I’d like to push with our future racing games.
Talbot: ‘Why am I doing this?’ comes up in design meetings a lot, and it’s a real hard one.
Wilday: It’s fundamental, isn’t it? You focus your efforts on making the gameplay experience during the races, and you’ve got to come away from them feeling that that was what you enjoyed. Obviously, in Sega Rally we focused on the whole deformation thing more than anything else. Progression, or the reason to play on, is with game modes and challenge from online, but I think the driving has got to be right first.
Does that mean simulation is still a really important consideration?
Talbot: I think racing games are stuck between two groups. On one side is the sports sim, the Forzas and the Gran Turismos and Race Drivers. On the other there’s arcade racers, the MotorStorms, Sega Rallys.
Kershaw: Yeah, we found that with World Rally Championship. It was trying to be a simulation, and it never broke into the mass market. While the race fans loved it, they’re only a small subset of what you can sell a good game to.
Talbot: Most people don’t like racing games.
Kershaw: They just want something that’s fun, that gives you the adrenaline rush.
Wilday: Do you not think that these things are cyclical, though? For me there was a period where that motorsports thing was it. It was what everyone wanted and played. I think that they then grew tired of it and wanted something else, and at the moment we’re definitely at a point where racing games are trying to do something different – more fantasy based, less realistic – more entertaining, in a sense. I don’t know, but I can see it going full circle.
Kershaw: The realism thing isn’t so much the issue any more. Our handling models are as realistic as we want them to be. We’re not trying to make someone be a rally driver, we’re going through the motions and giving them the perception of being one without having to be that good at it. It’s about creating emotion and feeling rather than simulation.
Raeburn: It’s about being a good driver without having the pain, but people don’t want to know that when they’re playing.
Kershaw: Yeah, absolutely, you’ve always got to pander to that hardcore market, that vocal subset that’s into suspension settings and how much your tires are toed in.
Overall I find the article interesting because it really tells you the mindset of the groups developing racing games in today's market.
Interesting article. If sim racing is to survive, it needs to find a way to innovate itself. Only so many ways you can throw a car around the same track thousands of times.
I find it funny that they are calling Grand Turismo, Forza and Dirt sims when they are so far from being a true sim.
This article only talks about racing games as it pertains to console gaming, which, I would have to agree that in that market, racing "sims" are on their way out. They are just too time consuming and hard to play for most normal console gamers that want to get in and play with a minimal learning curve. Also, the console gamer needs more incentive to play the game instead of "I win the race." They need sub plots to hook them.
Racing sims will never go away on the PC side. You will always have true sims out there like rFactor, Live For Speed and the others out there for the hardcore sim enthusiast. To a sim enthusiast, the thrill is just mastering the different cars we get to drive.
I find it funny that they are calling Grand Turismo, Forza and Dirt sims when they are so far from being a true sim.
This article only talks about racing games as it pertains to console gaming, which, I would have to agree that in that market, racing "sims" are on their way out. They are just too time consuming and hard to play for most normal console gamers that want to get in and play with a minimal learning curve. Also, the console gamer needs more incentive to play the game instead of "I win the race." They need sub plots to hook them.
Racing sims will never go away on the PC side. You will always have true sims out there like rFactor, Live For Speed and the others out there for the hardcore sim enthusiast. To a sim enthusiast, the thrill is just mastering the different cars we get to drive.
pretty spot on, playstation and Xbox have directed their racing games at the general gamer and not true race fans or racers. I play GTR2 and Race 07 online... id prefer to dig a hole in my back yard then play Gran Turismo or Dirt...
Obviously, neither one of you have played Forza 2, a console game that is most definitely on the sim side. I can't tell you the number of people I raced against online that complain about how rough turn 17 at Sebring is. Most of them complain about how hard it is to set up a car in the game as well.
I work with two guys that were HEAVILY into PC RPG's and FPS's. Both would buy the pieces to put together their own computers to the specs they wanted. They both have 360's now, after considering how much money they were spending on graphics cards and memory every few months, just to play the latest game coming out. They much prefer the ability to go down to GameStop or EB now, and buy a disc, go home, and put that disc in the drive and play right away, with no set-up or configuration screens to go through.
Obviously, neither one of you have played Forza 2, a console game that is most definitely on the sim side. I can't tell you the number of people I raced against online that complain about how rough turn 17 at Sebring is. Most of them complain about how hard it is to set up a car in the game as well.
I work with two guys that were HEAVILY into PC RPG's and FPS's. Both would buy the pieces to put together their own computers to the specs they wanted. They both have 360's now, after considering how much money they were spending on graphics cards and memory every few months, just to play the latest game coming out. They much prefer the ability to go down to GameStop or EB now, and buy a disc, go home, and put that disc in the drive and play right away, with no set-up or configuration screens to go through.
I have played Forza 2, and while it is heads above where FORZA and even Grand Turismo 4 was, it is still not a true sim. Sorry, but the game is still geared towards your general console gamer, not true sim racers.
Most complain because they don't want to spend the time to test and try different combinations. They, as in the the general console gamer want to just pick it up and go.
BTW..RPG and FPS and Racing sims are two completely different areas of the gaming world. For RPG/FPS, I think that is where the console really shines.
I am a huge PC sim racer, mostly rfactor. I own a xbox 360 also and forza 2 witch I enjoy for what it is. PC sim racers would never consider the games mentions in the article sims, because they are not. Forza 2 doesnt even have a cotpit view for gods sake and gt4 doesnt either, the two big console "sims". That artile has nothing to do with me, or the future devolpment of realistic pc sim racing.
I find it funny that they are calling Grand Turismo, Forza and Dirt sims when they are so far from being a true sim.
This article only talks about racing games as it pertains to console gaming, which, I would have to agree that in that market, racing "sims" are on their way out. They are just too time consuming and hard to play for most normal console gamers that want to get in and play with a minimal learning curve. Also, the console gamer needs more incentive to play the game instead of "I win the race." They need sub plots to hook them.
Racing sims will never go away on the PC side. You will always have true sims out there like rFactor, Live For Speed and the others out there for the hardcore sim enthusiast. To a sim enthusiast, the thrill is just mastering the different cars we get to drive.
Hit the nail on the head folks. First, you must differentiate between racing sims and racing games. All you have to do is google racing sim sites to see all is well in the racing SIMS catagory. As far as racing "games" are concerned, I'll let the console gamers worry about that.
If you think racing sims are particularly healthy on the PC side, you're either not paying attention or in denial.
Well Jabroni, I believe racing a few nights a week in various series throughout the world proves I'm paying attention, and the only denial going on is when I turn down invitations weekly to join other series (only so many free nights each week).
Here's where the issue lies, though...and this is more than just PC racing sims:
Simulations in general are in decline. Where they were once a thriving genre on the PC, now they're more of a niche. Yes, racing, flight, and other "hardcore" simulations are being made, but they're no longer part of the mainstream for the most part.
This ties in with the decline of the PC as a mainstream gaming platform. No, I'm not saying that people don't play games on their PC's. I'm saying that game developers aren't stupid. They recognize the smell of money from about a mile away, and they can tell that right now, console gaming is where all the profit is to be made.
id Software's Steve Nix believes that a significant number of 'hardcore' PC gamers are shifting over to home consoles to get their kicks.
Speaking to our sister site Eurogamer.net, Nix said that id would continue to support the loyal PC gamer, but it couldn't afford to ignore the size of the market for first-person shooters on console.
"I know that I have friends who are considered core gamers, who years ago were just keyboard and mouse guys - now, when a game ships on all platforms, they buy the console version, even though the PC version is sitting there and they have a PC that would run it perfectly well. It's just their preference," explained Nix.
Greg Stone, designer for Nerve Software, the developer working on the Xbox 360 version of Enemy Territory: Quake Wars, agreed with Nix: "For me, I'm exactly what he's describing – I'm a guy that used to play on PCs, and now I'm totally console.
"It's so much money to keep up with the bleeding edge of technology on the PC, and it really just is easier to take a console and say, well, this is good enough. I think that's the way it is for me, and for a lot of people at this point in time."
However, Nix was keen to point out that he's describing a limited trend - and that there's still plenty of space for the PC in the games market, even if FPS games are certainly no longer entirely a PC-centric genre.
"There are plenty of people who are diehard mouse and keyboard guys that may never go to console, and also right now, if you have the highest of high-end PCs, you're generally going to get a better visual experience," Nix said. "There's no console out there that's as powerful as a God machine right now, with a Quad-Core and a GeForce 8800 - it's very hard for any console to compete with that."
"So you still have PC players, and some players are just console guys, but have players moved over? Absolutely. We love PC gaming, and we continue to support PC gaming - but you can't ignore the market realities and the size of the console market these days."
In general, a large number of the major titles that come out are developed with the console in mind, and ported over to the PC later.
The two trends (PC/Sim decline) go together, and it's a general trend that's not limited to racing sims.
The article at the top is relevant because, while there are indeed racing sims being made, it's not exactly a lucrative industry.
Good to see all the discussion this has generated though
Well Jacngille and Hammer, I guess you are paying attention, so you must just be in denial. Sure there are a bunch of hardcore simmers around, but not enough to make racing sims a healthy market. Simbin seems to be the only company who can move traditional racing sims. Papy died, ISI didn't do all that well with its modding platform rFactor, iRacing has Red Sox money behind it and is certainly not a traditional sim. I think iRacing's subscription-based service will tell us just how healthy sim racing is. How many people will pay $150+ a year for a racing sim? With the relatively low number of simmers out there, and the rising costs of game production, you're going to have to charge each one more money to turn a profit.
Well Jacngille and Hammer, I guess you are paying attention, so you must just be in denial. Sure there are a bunch of hardcore simmers around, but not enough to make racing sims a healthy market. Simbin seems to be the only company who can move traditional racing sims. Papy died, ISI didn't do all that well with its modding platform rFactor, iRacing has Red Sox money behind it and is certainly not a traditional sim. I think iRacing's subscription-based service will tell us just how healthy sim racing is. How many people will pay $150+ a year for a racing sim? With the relatively low number of simmers out there, and the rising costs of game production, you're going to have to charge each one more money to turn a profit.
You do make a valid point, my man. Being one of the hardcore sim racers you refer to, my opinion is somewhat biased LOL. The number of newly released sims are few to be sure thanks to Papyrus & Sierra. Eight years ago, NASCAR 2003 was launched and since that time there have been so many add-on cars, tracks and mods to race other series such as GTP and open wheelers that they've set the bar impossibly high. RFactor is trying but have a LONG way to go. With the number of free server sites hosting racing every night, I hope IRacing isn't staking their future on their "pay to play" concept. Seem to have a very high opinion of themselves!
If you're into sim racing, drop me a PM and will gladly hook you up with some leagues I'm sure you'll enjoy!
Like I said, im a hardcore PC sim racer and I have been there from the start of it all. All I know is that I am now having more fun than EVER with the current sims that are out there, rfactor, LFS, GTR2, ect, ect, ect.. I could care less what the mainstream market is, or wants. The fact of the matter is that there will always be sim racing, and great sims to race!!!!!!
