Hirvonen and Atkinson complete podium.

Thank Bruce Almighty I’m only a McLaren fan… and not a Brazilian F1 fan.

If I [i:b169289147]were[/i:b169289147] a Brazilian race fan, the end of the season played out at Interlagos would fill me with dubious joy. Dubious joy, because the act of Massa finishing second and taking one for the team seems eerily familiar. Imagine that, a Brazilian playing the second red fiddle in the Italian Orchestra. Hmm… now where have I seen this result play out before? Some might argue this point but I seem to recall watching it time and again when Barrichello played the support role to the numerous Championships won by Schumacher for Ferrari.

So it would seem, that at the end of the 2007 season the stage has been set for 2008. Raikkonen’s Ferrari will carry the number 1 and Massa will drive number 2. And the ominous irony for Brazilian race fans is that Barrichello ([i:b169289147]their last hopeful[/i:b169289147]) finishes the season ([i:b169289147]quite possibly his career[/i:b169289147]) with no points, for the first time in his long career. And if this [i:b169289147]is[/i:b169289147] Barrichello’s last year… without a WDC to his credit. Living in Canada, I was a little embarrassed when I heard Villeneuve got a truck driving job and thought perhaps he should have changed his name before he strapped himself in. But I guess I can forgive him his defection, for at least he was on top of his game [i:b169289147]once[/i:b169289147] and I suppose he needed the work. In the end, maybe that’s what it boils down to for most drivers… a job.

A word to the wise. It seems… when you take one bullet for the team ([i:b169289147]proving you will[/i:b169289147]) you are sure to be asked to get shot again. History shows that consecutive championships are won through a team effort. It’s a proven strategy. Problem is, the driver who generally thanks the team the most is the one carrying the number 1. In effect, making the number 2 driver, simply another team member. I read in one thread within this forum where an Italian Ferrari fan expressed how he didn’t care what driver wins, just so long as the car is red. I wonder if he would feel the same if an Italian was the one taking the bullets. And maybe he would?

Anyway, say what you will about McLaren ([i:b169289147]and many here have[/i:b169289147]), without their presence ([i:b169289147]dramas and all[/i:b169289147]) in the 2007 season, it would have been a dull one. Their drivers literally fought it out to the bitter end and a bitter end and season it has been. As a McLaren fan, I suppose the best thing about the 2007 season is that it wasn’t the 2006 season. As for the Brazilian fans, take heart, if your driver of the day accepts his number 2 position at Ferrari, know that you will always have Senna to inspire future compatriots.

Holla !! Mclaren 4 life !!!



I cant wait till ferrari falls behind again. Because mclaren is back baby i promise you if not this year then 2008 will be the time to see who wins on the track without appeals.

McLaren got its advantage using Ferrari's design and race tactics info, regardless of what the FIA was able to prove. Everyone knows it. McLaren will again become the also ran it was and will have trouble getting podiums from Renault and BMW next year.

Umm... did anyone actually read the post? At all?

That was actually a good post-but I doubt you have anything to fear. No matter what the numbers on the cars are, I doubt that Ferrari will really favor either driver unless he gains a lead in the points. Massa is just too good to be immediately shafted.

Thanks. I didn't think I was whining, just making and sharing an observation. And I guess we'll have to wait until next year to see if I'm just talking out of the side of my neck or not.

[quote:ea74a418dd="petrus_boots"]Thanks. I didn't think I was whining, just making and sharing an observation. And I guess we'll have to wait until next year to see if I'm just talking out of the side of my neck or not.[/quote:ea74a418dd]

You weren't whining and your observation was legitimate.

Keep in mind, now that you're including a sig photo of Hulme in a late 60's McLaren, you have been branded an infidel by some who post on this board. :wink:

Next year will be VERY interesting!

Did you watch the brazil gp? kimi was right behind massa...massa made a mistake as well...during massa's last pitstop, kimi lit up the sector times in purple.

i saw kimi win on track, but even if he couldn't legitimately beat massa on track, you would be foolish not to let kimi in front. what's he supposed to do (massa), fight for the win and keep his team from winning the WDC when he isn't even in the fight mathmatically? that's Ron's philosophy.

[quote:d5c2c4df6f="petrus_boots"]Thank Bruce Almighty I’m only a McLaren fan… and not a Brazilian F1 fan.

If I [i:d5c2c4df6f]were[/i:d5c2c4df6f] a Brazilian race fan, the end of the season played out at Interlagos would fill me with dubious joy. Dubious joy, because the act of Massa finishing second and taking one for the team seems eerily familiar. Imagine that, a Brazilian playing the second red fiddle in the Italian Orchestra. Hmm… now where have I seen this result play out before? Some might argue this point but I seem to recall watching it time and again when Barrichello played the support role to the numerous Championships won by Schumacher for Ferrari.

So it would seem, that at the end of the 2007 season the stage has been set for 2008. Raikkonen’s Ferrari will carry the number 1 and Massa will drive number 2. And the ominous irony for Brazilian race fans is that Barrichello ([i:d5c2c4df6f]their last hopeful[/i:d5c2c4df6f]) finishes the season ([i:d5c2c4df6f]quite possibly his career[/i:d5c2c4df6f]) with no points, for the first time in his long career. And if this [i:d5c2c4df6f]is[/i:d5c2c4df6f] Barrichello’s last year… without a WDC to his credit. Living in Canada, I was a little embarrassed when I heard Villeneuve got a truck driving job and thought perhaps he should have changed his name before he strapped himself in. But I guess I can forgive him his defection, for at least he was on top of his game [i:d5c2c4df6f]once[/i:d5c2c4df6f] and I suppose he needed the work. In the end, maybe that’s what it boils down to for most drivers… a job.

A word to the wise. It seems… when you take one bullet for the team ([i:d5c2c4df6f]proving you will[/i:d5c2c4df6f]) you are sure to be asked to get shot again. History shows that consecutive championships are won through a team effort. It’s a proven strategy. Problem is, the driver who generally thanks the team the most is the one carrying the number 1. In effect, making the number 2 driver, simply another team member. I read in one thread within this forum where an Italian Ferrari fan expressed how he didn’t care what driver wins, just so long as the car is red. I wonder if he would feel the same if an Italian was the one taking the bullets. And maybe he would?

Anyway, say what you will about McLaren ([i:d5c2c4df6f]and many here have[/i:d5c2c4df6f]), without their presence ([i:d5c2c4df6f]dramas and all[/i:d5c2c4df6f]) in the 2007 season, it would have been a dull one. Their drivers literally fought it out to the bitter end and a bitter end and season it has been. As a McLaren fan, I suppose the best thing about the 2007 season is that it wasn’t the 2006 season. As for the Brazilian fans, take heart, if your driver of the day accepts his number 2 position at Ferrari, know that you will always have Senna to inspire future compatriots.[/quote:d5c2c4df6f]

Well written post!!!
However, I am certain Ferrari started the season with both driver being equal and the strategy that whichever driver would be in the best position to win the WDC would get the support of the other. And I think it will be the same next year. But I HOPE it will be the McLaren drivers who will have to make that decision at some point.

a little common sense would help here.

you have 1 driver in your team who is in contention for the WDC and 1 who is not.

it is the LAST race of the season.


What is the CONTEXT here ?

If you apply a rule absolutely without knowledge of justified exceptions based on the spirit of the rule and when it doesn't apply, then you've become nothing more than a 1, 0 robot automaton.

Pinocchios and Davids (AI) need not apply.



Let's recap: you would find it "REASONABLE" for Ferrari to beat themselves by insisting that Kimi not pass Massa in order to win the WDC for the sake of maintaining semblance of appearances ?


How daft would that make Ferrari ?


Let's be clear here: Massa knew BEFORE landing in Brazil and touching his homeland soil after departing Fuji (not Shanghai) that he was to , as you would say, "take a bullet for the team".

Up to Fuji when he was mathematically in contention, there was no such notion.

If anything, this year, there was just as equal a points battle between the 2 Ferrari drivers BUT with less PUBLIC melodrama. To be sure, there was highly likely some fair amount tension within the team that we never saw.
But that was the point. The drivers followed team unity and didn't air their grievances to the "public opinion appeals board". If anything, they handled a competitive driver environment where both were in contention for the WDC for most of the year far better than McLaren and Alonso did.

It would be UNprofessional for Massa once the realization was made that he could not defeat either McLaren drivers for the WDC to not help the team.


To ask him not to would be tantamount to being lacking of common sense.

PS I don't know where your DVD or TiVO was last year but Massa didn't play second fiddle to Schumi at Brazil 2006. He utterly dominated it when it became apparent that Schumi couldn't contend for the WDC.

[quote:ba5976e255="swissf1fan"] Well written post!!!
[/quote:ba5976e255][list:ba5976e255]It is if you ignore the facts . [/list:u:ba5976e255][list:ba5976e255]Felipe was ahead of Kimi for much of the year and only played the loyal teammate after his chance at a WDC was gone . [/list:u:ba5976e255][list:ba5976e255]You all seem to know something we Tifosi don't , that Felipe has been relegated to number 2 lackey .[/list:u:ba5976e255][list:ba5976e255] Do any of you have any proof that in the future Felipe will not be treated equal ? No , you don't .[/list:u:ba5976e255][list:ba5976e255] Massa is my man , and I don't apperciate some bitter fan dissing him .[/list:u:ba5976e255][list:ba5976e255]Don't knock Ferrari because they understand this is a team sport . If Mclaren knew how to run a F-1 team as a team , their man would have been WDC this year . [/list:u:ba5976e255][list:ba5976e255]Perhaps Mclaren fans would be better suited worrying about their own team , it seems to be in quite a bit of disarray . 8) [/list:u:ba5976e255]