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DMG = Club Racing?
Abnormal User
Total Posts: 4432
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You KNOW!
Abnormal User
Total Posts: 3636
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now... you boys play nice... i remember a time when this BBS was less confrontational and a person could enjoy friendly banter back and forth... oh, how i long for the days of my youth...
(nothing but love zoot)
yes, there is a club that does weight and power limits... i do not recall exactly which one it is, but, ASRA comes to mind...
Loudon race series was the one that went to spec fuel... as i recall, the fuel supplier was losiing too much money on the deal and somehting is going to have to change...
(nothing but love zoot)yes, there is a club that does weight and power limits... i do not recall exactly which one it is, but, ASRA comes to mind...
Loudon race series was the one that went to spec fuel... as i recall, the fuel supplier was losiing too much money on the deal and somehting is going to have to change...
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intense sequences of violence and some menace…
Abnormal User
Total Posts: 4273
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what have i told you about argueing with me?
No you didn't.
You could point out his speeling errors too,, while your at it.
Good one JP... "Looking at pictures"! I wish I'd thought of that. 
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If You Believe ... You WILL Achieve!
Abnormal User
Total Posts: 1589
Joined
now... you boys play nice... i remember a time when this BBS was less confrontational and a person could enjoy friendly banter back and forth... oh, how i long for the days of my youth...
yes, there is a club that does weight and power limits... i do not recall exactly which one it is, but, ASRA comes to mind...
Loudon race series was the one that went to spec fuel... as i recall, the fuel supplier was losiing too much money on the deal and somehting is going to have to change...
Yep those are the ones. The Loudon series was the spec fuel series. You could either use the spec fuel or pump gas.
Me and Zoot play nice ??? Never !!!
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The Motorcycle Forum-The Real Fan Fun Zone
Veteran
Total Posts: 62
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Well, weight/power restrictions aside, DMG's attitude of trying to create a class for almost every bike out there does seem a bit 'clubby' to me. I do hope the mfg's start their own series. I'm not going to watch a dumbed-down version of Snoremula Extremelyboring.
Legend
Total Posts: 178
Joined 05/10/2008
Well, weight/power restrictions aside, DMG's attitude of trying to create a class for almost every bike out there does seem a bit 'clubby' to me. I do hope the mfg's start their own series. I'm not going to watch a dumbed-down version of Snoremula Extremelyboring.
Worse than clubby, it was/is a hillbilly deal.
Speed Freak
Total Posts: 476
Joined
The article today written by Speed reports quotes the MIC. The guy very effectively points out the glaring weaknesses of the Daytona Group appraoch. i.e. If you put Sponsors B4 manufacturers and technology it doesn't allow manufacturers to showcase their machinery. If manufacturers are way down the line in recognition to the fans there really is no point in manufacturers racing.
Looks like we will have a new proper series being set up as the DG cannot give the manufacturers what they need.
(This is very interesting as it also exposes the potential weakness in today's Nascar Sprint Cup series. i.e. the manufacturer is given very poor recognition.)
What's very interesting is that most of the Nascar/DG owned trqacks aren't that inportant to a road racing series anyway. They would need one BIG name track event each year though. Intriguing to think that the IMS circuit could be used for that?
Looks like we will have a new proper series being set up as the DG cannot give the manufacturers what they need.
(This is very interesting as it also exposes the potential weakness in today's Nascar Sprint Cup series. i.e. the manufacturer is given very poor recognition.)
What's very interesting is that most of the Nascar/DG owned trqacks aren't that inportant to a road racing series anyway. They would need one BIG name track event each year though. Intriguing to think that the IMS circuit could be used for that?
Abnormal User
Total Posts: 2044
Joined
The article today written by Speed reports quotes the MIC. The guy very effectively points out the glaring weaknesses of the Daytona Group appraoch. i.e. If you put Sponsors B4 manufacturers and technology it doesn't allow manufacturers to showcase their machinery. If manufacturers are way down the line in recognition to the fans there really is no point in manufacturers racing.
Looks like we will have a new proper series being set up as the DG cannot give the manufacturers what they need.
(This is very interesting as it also exposes the potential weakness in today's Nascar Sprint Cup series. i.e. the manufacturer is given very poor recognition.)
DMG have been drinking their own Kool-aid for so long they probably believe it. Since NASCAR doesn't drive anthing romotely close to what the public drive on the road including any accessories one can use on their cars, Ford, Chevy and Dodge are just an idea. I believe the current deal is they use one body shell and paint X-manufacture on the side.
People that ride a GSXR can buy a Yoshimura pipe, Vortex sprokets and so on. If you ride an R1 you can put an Ohlins shock on it. People that follow AMA can actually do a track day. Most people I know that own Mustangs, Coverttes and the like (and I have asked since there is a track near by) don't want to take their cars to the track. What a stupid thought.
Speed Freak
Total Posts: 374
Joined 04/17/2008
Read a couple of articles that were interesting to say the least, one in Car and Driver in regards to the Grand Am series and one in Cycle World (Kevin Cameron's TDC page July 08 issue).
Cameron recognizes just like most of us do that DMG is trying to skew the rules to allow Harley (through Buell) to compete and not get embarrased like they did before. Here is a quote from the article in reference to the throngs of motorcyclist that head to Daytona each year but skip the races. "One said to the other "which ones're the Harleys?" There weren't any. There still aren't, and I doubt that any "awareness" programs will bring lifestyle riders to the races to watch Japanese, Italian, and German machines to circulate. The Daytona people tried two years ago, by arranging for Erik Buell and his engineer team to create and enter a few special 1340cc pushrod air-cooleds in hope that something good might happen. It didn't, underlining the enduring fact that solid reliability in racing is very expensive."
As far as Car and Driver (August 08 issue, Mad Money article) CD built and entered a car into the Grand Am Koni Challenge Series (350Z). Here are a few of their thoughts/findings. "As with NASCAR, the rules vehemently restrict technology and horsepower in order to control costs and stretch equipment life. Grand-AM also takes inspiration from NASCAR's proven field-equalizing techniques to keep the racing close among grids of diverse cars." "Ultimately, Gran-Am's big government concept lives or dies with the number of paid entries. It's February 2000 debut race at Daytona drew 80 starters. At the season opener at Daytona in January, a total of 167 cars took green flags in the three hour short race and the 24-hour classic." The group that helped build their car had campaigned 350Z's before for a Southern California Nissan dealer that raced under the team name Unitech. "For Unitech much of the operating outlay was recouped by renting out two cars at $35,000 each per weekend, says Stewart, and sponsorship returned some money. Renters are usually wealthy gentlemen racers who want to arrive-and-drive in a big-time series without the hassle and expense of creating a new team." Unitech ran three cars during the series, two for rent and then the "official" team car. Car and Driver estimates it would take $650-$700,000 dollars to run one car for a year in the Koni Challenge series. "Measured in dollars, the largest single donor was Bosch, which loaned an engine controller, a data logger, a digital dash display, and a wiring harness. Net retail price: $19,900. At the time, we thought it was a significant coup, but in fact, it was where our little adventure in big-time racing suddenly became very complicated. Wait. Doesn't a 350Z already come with a perfectly good engine computer? Yes, but factory units are tuned for the street, and unless a factory is willing - or able - to supply new maps for the air-fuel mixtures and cam-timing adjusters (Nissan wasn't), racers must turn to aftermarket control modules to extract more power. .... In 2006 Bosch inked a deal with Grand-AM to make it's units the sole legal aftermarket computers starting in 2008. A uniform computer makes it much easier for officials to verify engine output and rules compliance, says Gran-Am's Elson. Simply pull the data flashcards following every race, and any cheating should be laid bare." Sounds familiar. "Also, "it gives us the potential to select calibrations and use the ECU as a performance equalizer." Elson says. In other words, if certain cars become too dominant, their engine parameters can simply be dialed back a notch to resume the photo finishes." Who wants this??? I can see why the factories wouldn't want to participate. "Given that NASCAR made billionaires of the Frances, it's hard to argue the strategy, although some do. "Dumb decision," says Unitech's Stewart flatly. "It added a lot of expense and didn't gain anything." Stewart says adapting MoTeC computers to his own 350z took more than a year and cost $150,000, "and we still had problems." Bosch's little blue boxes are no less sophisticated, and establishing full communications with our Z likewise proved an expensive, yearlong battle of frustration." "Grand-Am's foot-dragging on part-swap approvals seems to confirm some teams' observation that organizers are slow to act to keep less popular cars competitive, which is why GS has evolved largely into a three-way battle between M3s, 911s, and Mustangs. "They don't seem to want to make rules to help the small guys," says Will Turner, owner of Turner Motorsports, which fields four top cars in Grand-AM: two BMW M3s in GS and two 330i's in ST. "But it's usually the small teams that bring in the new cars." "Turner, the BMW team owner, figures 80 percent of Grand-AM teams drop out after three seasons." "What we learned with our free Z is that racing costs spiral upwards precisely because a series is succesful and, thus far in history, despite the best efforts of any sanctioning body to control it. Implosion usually follows."
Sounds like we have lot's of the same to look forward to in DMG superbike racing, although I don't think the rental business for gentlemen racers will work out very well.
Cameron recognizes just like most of us do that DMG is trying to skew the rules to allow Harley (through Buell) to compete and not get embarrased like they did before. Here is a quote from the article in reference to the throngs of motorcyclist that head to Daytona each year but skip the races. "One said to the other "which ones're the Harleys?" There weren't any. There still aren't, and I doubt that any "awareness" programs will bring lifestyle riders to the races to watch Japanese, Italian, and German machines to circulate. The Daytona people tried two years ago, by arranging for Erik Buell and his engineer team to create and enter a few special 1340cc pushrod air-cooleds in hope that something good might happen. It didn't, underlining the enduring fact that solid reliability in racing is very expensive."
As far as Car and Driver (August 08 issue, Mad Money article) CD built and entered a car into the Grand Am Koni Challenge Series (350Z). Here are a few of their thoughts/findings. "As with NASCAR, the rules vehemently restrict technology and horsepower in order to control costs and stretch equipment life. Grand-AM also takes inspiration from NASCAR's proven field-equalizing techniques to keep the racing close among grids of diverse cars." "Ultimately, Gran-Am's big government concept lives or dies with the number of paid entries. It's February 2000 debut race at Daytona drew 80 starters. At the season opener at Daytona in January, a total of 167 cars took green flags in the three hour short race and the 24-hour classic." The group that helped build their car had campaigned 350Z's before for a Southern California Nissan dealer that raced under the team name Unitech. "For Unitech much of the operating outlay was recouped by renting out two cars at $35,000 each per weekend, says Stewart, and sponsorship returned some money. Renters are usually wealthy gentlemen racers who want to arrive-and-drive in a big-time series without the hassle and expense of creating a new team." Unitech ran three cars during the series, two for rent and then the "official" team car. Car and Driver estimates it would take $650-$700,000 dollars to run one car for a year in the Koni Challenge series. "Measured in dollars, the largest single donor was Bosch, which loaned an engine controller, a data logger, a digital dash display, and a wiring harness. Net retail price: $19,900. At the time, we thought it was a significant coup, but in fact, it was where our little adventure in big-time racing suddenly became very complicated. Wait. Doesn't a 350Z already come with a perfectly good engine computer? Yes, but factory units are tuned for the street, and unless a factory is willing - or able - to supply new maps for the air-fuel mixtures and cam-timing adjusters (Nissan wasn't), racers must turn to aftermarket control modules to extract more power. .... In 2006 Bosch inked a deal with Grand-AM to make it's units the sole legal aftermarket computers starting in 2008. A uniform computer makes it much easier for officials to verify engine output and rules compliance, says Gran-Am's Elson. Simply pull the data flashcards following every race, and any cheating should be laid bare." Sounds familiar. "Also, "it gives us the potential to select calibrations and use the ECU as a performance equalizer." Elson says. In other words, if certain cars become too dominant, their engine parameters can simply be dialed back a notch to resume the photo finishes." Who wants this??? I can see why the factories wouldn't want to participate. "Given that NASCAR made billionaires of the Frances, it's hard to argue the strategy, although some do. "Dumb decision," says Unitech's Stewart flatly. "It added a lot of expense and didn't gain anything." Stewart says adapting MoTeC computers to his own 350z took more than a year and cost $150,000, "and we still had problems." Bosch's little blue boxes are no less sophisticated, and establishing full communications with our Z likewise proved an expensive, yearlong battle of frustration." "Grand-Am's foot-dragging on part-swap approvals seems to confirm some teams' observation that organizers are slow to act to keep less popular cars competitive, which is why GS has evolved largely into a three-way battle between M3s, 911s, and Mustangs. "They don't seem to want to make rules to help the small guys," says Will Turner, owner of Turner Motorsports, which fields four top cars in Grand-AM: two BMW M3s in GS and two 330i's in ST. "But it's usually the small teams that bring in the new cars." "Turner, the BMW team owner, figures 80 percent of Grand-AM teams drop out after three seasons." "What we learned with our free Z is that racing costs spiral upwards precisely because a series is succesful and, thus far in history, despite the best efforts of any sanctioning body to control it. Implosion usually follows."
Sounds like we have lot's of the same to look forward to in DMG superbike racing, although I don't think the rental business for gentlemen racers will work out very well.
