http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_3572181,00.html

Nick Fry has urged F1 to focus its attention of enticing car manufacturers to the sport, saying costs mean privateers struggle to survive.


The downfall and demise of Super Aguri prior to the Turkish GP weekend means that just ten teams remaining in this year's Championship, four of which are privateers: Williams, Force India, Red Bull and Toro Rosso.


However, the latter's position on the grid is in jeopardy after Red Bull owner Dietrich Mateschitz announced that he was selling his share in the team.


Rule changes in 2010 mean that Red Bull, Toro Rosso's sister team, will no longer be able to provide Toro Rosso with custom cars and so Matechitz reckons there is no need to run two teams.


Should the sale not go ahead it could mean the F1 grid would drop to just nine teams, however, Fry believes the sport should focus on getting manufacturers to replace the out-going privateers and not bring in more independent outfits.


"The first question to answer is, 'Is F1 any place for a not-very-well funded privateer team?'" he told Autosport magazine.


"In this sport, there is a history of teams working at the margins that invariably fall off the bottom, and I think it will ever be so.


"The real mission for F1 is to attract a Volkswagen, an Audi or another big consumer business into the sport and not attempt to bring in more privateers, who may end up in the same position as teams like Arrows and Prost.


"Privateer teams enter on the basis that they can afford the first season - but invariably can't generate the revenue to continue into their second or third years.


"If you can't afford to compete, you shouldn't be here."

Bingo.

If Honda continues to struggle will they stay in F1? I can understand why manufacturers would want be in F1 and I also understand why manufacturers would opt not to be in F1. Audi has won the biggest and greatest race in world (24 Hours of Le Mans) 7x in last 8 years. While also dominating endurance sports car racing since 2000. They've also taken what they learn and developed roadcar. Why would Audi want spend more money on F1 program that may or maynot have same success as their sports car program? I see the Porsche-Volkswagen Group sticking to sports car racing.

FerrariEnzo - 16 May 2008 02:17 AM

If Honda continues to struggle will they stay in F1? I can understand why manufacturers would want be in F1 and I also understand why manufacturers would opt not to be in F1. Audi has won the biggest and greatest race in world (24 Hours of Le Mans) 7x in last 8 years. While also dominating endurance sports car racing since 2000. They've also taken what they learn and developed roadcar. Why would Audi want spend more money on F1 program that may or maynot have same success as their sports car program? I see the Porsche-Volkswagen Group sticking to sports car racing.

I agree with all of this, but all it indicates to me is that F1 should step up it's pursuit of more manufacturers as teams.

Here is a stupid question. Is there a rule that limits teams to 2 cars? I mean if Red Bull wanted to field 4 cars instead of two and dissolve Toro Rosso could they do that legally?

Just asking.

r60man - 16 May 2008 06:06 AM

Here is a stupid question. Is there a rule that limits teams to 2 cars? I mean if Red Bull wanted to field 4 cars instead of two and dissolve Toro Rosso could they do that legally?

Just asking.

2 cars per team unless the field count drops too low and then the Concorde Agreement kicks in to cause teams to field a 3rd car. I say, eliminate the 2 car/team rule and make it 3/team

hairy_scotsman - 16 May 2008 02:38 AM

FerrariEnzo - 16 May 2008 02:17 AM

If Honda continues to struggle will they stay in F1? I can understand why manufacturers would want be in F1 and I also understand why manufacturers would opt not to be in F1. Audi has won the biggest and greatest race in world (24 Hours of Le Mans) 7x in last 8 years. While also dominating endurance sports car racing since 2000. They've also taken what they learn and developed roadcar. Why would Audi want spend more money on F1 program that may or maynot have same success as their sports car program? I see the Porsche-Volkswagen Group sticking to sports car racing.

I agree with all of this, but all it indicates to me is that F1 should step up it's pursuit of more manufacturers as teams.

Do you understand motorsports history? If you do, you'll understand that what you're asking for is doomed for failure. There's a video you can watch on this site of the IMSA GTPs from 1993. That's what racing looks like when manufacturers pull out.

F1 as an advertising venue only works if you win. Redbull gets value even if they lose because they don't sell cars. Honda and Toyota get no value at the back of the grid.

I completely disagree with Nick Fry, F1 should encourage manufacturer's to enter but should also remain viable for small privateer teams which have always been the backbone of F1.

As we've seen since the 50's when the championship was started, the manufacturer's have come & gone, the only one thats remained in F1 has been Ferrari, Mercedes, BMW, Renault & Honda have all come & gone in the past, sometimes more than once. Everytime the big manufacturer's have left its been the small privateers that have taken there spots.

Lets use this scenario, were down to 10 teams/20 cars now Super Aguri have gone, STR are looking very questionable for next year so we could be down to 9 teams/18 cars. There were some reports from Japan over the winter that Toyota bosses will not continue supporting the F1 program unless they start winning in the next few years, if they go its 8 teams/16 cars.

Point been if things continue & we lost the privateer teams, what happens if the manufacturer's start to lose intrest in F1 & leave like they have in the past?

As to letting the run 3 cars, do we really want an all Ferrari or McLaren podium at every race? Letting them run 3 cars could kill the few remaining small teams such as Williams as the points would be dominated by the big 3-4 teams (Ferrari, McLaren, BMW & Renault).

^ Agreed.

who cares there is only 2-3 good teams anyway....... Maybe 4 if renault gets it back together. I don't really care what's going on at the back. Nobody likes a loser.

stefmeister - 16 May 2008 10:16 AM

I completely disagree with Nick Fry, F1 should encourage manufacturer's to enter but should also remain viable for small privateer teams which have always been the backbone of F1.

As we've seen since the 50's when the championship was started, the manufacturer's have come & gone, the only one thats remained in F1 has been Ferrari, Mercedes, BMW, Renault & Honda have all come & gone in the past, sometimes more than once. Everytime the big manufacturer's have left its been the small privateers that have taken there spots.

Lets use this scenario, were down to 10 teams/20 cars now Super Aguri have gone, STR are looking very questionable for next year so we could be down to 9 teams/18 cars. There were some reports from Japan over the winter that Toyota bosses will not continue supporting the F1 program unless they start winning in the next few years, if they go its 8 teams/16 cars.

Point been if things continue & we lost the privateer teams, what happens if the manufacturer's start to lose intrest in F1 & leave like they have in the past?

As to letting the run 3 cars, do we really want an all Ferrari or McLaren podium at every race? Letting them run 3 cars could kill the few remaining small teams such as Williams as the points would be dominated by the big 3-4 teams (Ferrari, McLaren, BMW & Renault).

So, then...what do you do?

Look, I agree with what you guys are saying and I understand the importance of privateers to the sport. It's just that this is the most expensive form of the most expensive sport. You can't just be letting any old team come in just because they can afford a season or two. Instability of this fashion is harmful, imho. I can't see a manufacturer being in for any less than a 5+ year stint.

I think we all want more, not less. I want more privateers. I want more manufacturers. They're driving out privateers with assinine cost-cutting rules that don't really cut costs, then they wonder why teams fold and nobody will buy them. If they must insist on going down this road, then they must focus on manufacturers. Otherwise, cut costs in a meaningful way, not just on everything but aero, so that, like you said, F1 remains viable to a much larger pool of teams/investors. As it is now, that pool is dwindling fast.

In a perfect world, I'd want a nice balance between manufacturers and privateers, lots of cars on the track, lower costs so there's better competition, and less restrictive rules for more innovation, maybe even a return of the tire wars, even 3 or 4 tire makers! Let's make it interesting!

Can those things coexist?

Maybe. I don't know. Maybe not.