hi-zoot - 28 April 2008 12:18 AM

seriously, i'm gonna go on record and say i don't hate their ideas so far. it isn't what i'd have done but i'll never have that decision. the US is a totally different market from the rest of the world. we buy different, watch different and we don't know motorcycles as a whole. their plan, imo, looks like it could get closer racing... better racing. how many here are tired of suzuki run aways? how many said "YEAH!" when jordan spoke out about unobtanium a few years back?

it won't be the same as wsb but i really don't care. if i want wsb i have wsb. besides, when was the last time an american went to race wsb? colin? bostrom? been years. doesn't seem having the same classes promotes much crossover to me.

a spec tired, equal hp'd 600 "superbike" class with the top riders and plenty of great privateers sounds like good racing to me. sounds like somewhere the best rider will win and you'd be surprised who's the best on a given day.

everybody wants better but is afraid of change. kinda catch 22 don't ya think? free yo minds, people.

i don't know that it will work but i think it has a good chance.

i also bet that many here will enjoy it when they finally see it.

ok, go ahead and hate me now

i would disagree in only 1 respect, the hp limit is ridiculous and unenforecable for the most part. if they really want to choke down the bikes that much, then they should just run supersport, rather than fx rules. since they're production bikes, i think the rules should have been supersport and superstock anyway, with very wide allowances on what bikes were eligeable for each class, but that's just me...

I thought DMG were planning on enforcing hp limitations via post race tech inspections that included dyno testing/measurements.

hi-zoot - 28 April 2008 10:28 AM

povol - 28 April 2008 08:20 AM

Will someone PLEEEASE explain to me how putting the same riders on different bikes is somehow going to make Matt Mladin or Ben Spies a second a lap slower.It's not the bike,its the riders.

btw, if that were 100% the case Ben would have taken a few 600 titles in the past 4 years

+1

While I agree that rider skill has plenty to do with results, Yosh's 600 isn't as well developed as the other big 3. Spies was having difficulties with the 600 during the 06 season. And Tommy Hayden, who's won ss titles before and is usually very competitive in that class, is struggling to even make top 10. It's still about the overall package/chemistry: rider + good machinery + excellent team and how well they gel together. A motogp example would be Stoner. He wasn't great with the satellite Honda team, but as soon as he switched to Ducati; 10 wins and championship the following season.

The horsepower limit will be enforced with the "spec" Engine Control Unit. The only problem is the teams will not have any access to the ECU except when it is handed to them and the DMG officials watch them install it. The teams have already realized in private that the better their on track performance the more restrictive the ECU they get. In other words, if Jordan continues to out think and out hustle M4-Emgo, Jordan will get issued a ECU and M4-Emgo won't even though they both race Suzukis. And if you think it won't happen read a NASCAR biography from the 70's or 80's. Everyone one of them has at least one story of NASCAR officials turning a blind eye towards certain drivers that Bill France Jr pick to be stars so he could build the sport. If you think it's not going to happen to build DMG's version of motorcycle racing your a fool.

DMG's version of "transparent rules enforcement".

So what exactly is DMG going to do when one specific rider starts dominating the class on their proposed rules?

Add weight on by eating some McDonalds, intake plates or pace car?

I'm sure someone will dominate. The SS class is nearly stock and 3 riders blew the field yesterday and it is clear the Graves bikes are dominating for now.

If their idea is to keep the pack together by throwing a debris flag every now and then we should be able to enjoy the melee at turn 1 after every restart.

hi-zoot - 28 April 2008 12:18 AM

seriously, i'm gonna go on record and say i don't hate their ideas so far. it isn't what i'd have done but i'll never have that decision. the US is a totally different market from the rest of the world. we buy different, watch different and we don't know motorcycles as a whole. their plan, imo, looks like it could get closer racing... better racing. how many here are tired of suzuki run aways? how many said "YEAH!" when jordan spoke out about unobtanium a few years back?

it won't be the same as wsb but i really don't care. if i want wsb i have wsb. besides, when was the last time an american went to race wsb? colin? bostrom? been years. doesn't seem having the same classes promotes much crossover to me.

a spec tired, equal hp'd 600 "superbike" class with the top riders and plenty of great privateers sounds like good racing to me. sounds like somewhere the best rider will win and you'd be surprised who's the best on a given day.

everybody wants better but is afraid of change. kinda catch 22 don't ya think? free yo minds, people.

i don't know that it will work but i think it has a good chance.

i also bet that many here will enjoy it when they finally see it.

ok, go ahead and hate me now

There is a hell of a lot more to a 'superbike' than horsepower. There is tractable torque and high-dollar suspension componentry, and when comparing privateers to factory riders there is more track time and more (and generally better) hands on the bikes for the teams. The factories will hire the best riders, especially if they need 4 riders per factory. Privateers will be no more competitive than they are now.

600s as the premier class will have us the laughing stock of the world, and DMG is pretty clear that they want 1000s off the track in the near future. They talk about bringing back hell-holes like Loudon and their answer is slower bikes to do it - bikes which corner faster, so the lack of run-off room won't be increased by slower straightaway speeds. We get rolling starts and pace cars...

You see this as good? Where is the good part? Unless you like MotoST that is -if you do you'll be in heaven, but it will be a lonely heaven because most will view that race as time to leave the track.

It's a joke, but a bad joke. It is quite possible to want change but not like the offered change - because we want change for the better. 'Better' is a key word there.

It doesn't matter how good the racing is. DMG thinks it knows what the general public will watch and couldn't care less about anything else. If they did they would have at least tried to work with the factories. And just wait, they are going to use the crashes with the Hayden brothers as proof that the new classes are needed. Somehow DMG's 600's are going to be safer than the 600's they were riding.

I'm sure Zoot that the proposed new rules will appeal to some but I can't help but think that the majority of race fans will hate them. I am certain that I hate them. HP restricted classes, Moto ST, rolling starts, pace cars...none of this works for me. I read an article somwhere that at least a couple of the people involved with the DMG proposal have been involved with the Canadian Superbike series. No offense to that series BUT is it known world wide for it's close racing? Is it acknowledged as a premier series that frequently puts riders in WSB or MotoGP? I don't think so in either case and I don't think these ideas will work in the US. Everybody agrees that some change is needed in the AMA series but I think it needs "tuning" and not a complete overhaul. I will give the on track activities a chance but I don't think it looks good at this point and if someone comes in with a rival series that the OEM's will back, that will be the series that grows.

I'm not a huge fan of the dumbing down of the sport. There is a bit of pride in knowing what goes on and how things work. Call me selfish, but I like that not anyone can jump in and understand everything that's going on. It's going to Nascar on 2 wheels if DMG gets its way.

yamxtrm! - 28 April 2008 01:21 PM

So what exactly is DMG going to do when one specific rider starts dominating the class on their proposed rules?

Add weight on by eating some McDonalds, intake plates or pace car?

I'm sure someone will dominate. The SS class is nearly stock and 3 riders blew the field yesterday and it is clear the Graves bikes are dominating for now.

If their idea is to keep the pack together by throwing a debris flag every now and then we should be able to enjoy the melee at turn 1 after every restart.

No, they will come up with some other scheme. Just look back a couple years ago in Nascar when Kenseth had a huge lead early in the season and he just protected his points lead at the end. They didn't like that because it was anti-climatic so they create the chase with the last 10 races. It's not just about parity from race to race, they will want parity all season long so you don't have one team or one rider win the series early and just coast at the end.

I agree with the assessment about someone eventually dominating, you can see it in AMA, WSBK, MotoGP, etc... it comes down to a rider, bike and team gelling and getting their set up right for each race. The issue I have is trying to engineer the rules to such a degree that it becomes like WWE where it has no basis in reality and truly becomes entertainment and racing in the losest of terms, where it is all about the sizzle and not the steak.